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Original poster

Too Many Cuts...come join the #Frothers and have your say

942 replies

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 07/12/2011 21:23

This is the 3rd thread in a series.

It is for people who are horrified, frustrated and downright sad at the erosion of human rights with respect to how this country is being run, just now and in the recent past

it is apolitical in nature, but of course due to many recent initiatives by the recent govt, there will be rants against our current "leaders"

please join in

I shall post the link to the old threads, our "Too Many Cuts #Frothers" blog that is attracting a lot of widespread attention and a little bit of what we are about in a moment

OP posts:
KnottyLocks · 09/12/2011 16:04

Hully, the vocational courses were introduced for those kids. Some courses are brilliant, some are not. Wolf's right it needs an overhall. BUT it must be done so the young people that take them aren't constantly told they are doing 'Mickey blooody Mouse' courses by some right-winged media.

Intelligence is multifaceted.

Einstein = genius but I'd rather have a kinaesthetically intelligent electrician rewire my house.

KnottyLocks · 09/12/2011 16:08

Academic is always rated higher - league tables say so!

It requires a change of thought by not only our society but by a vast amount of the countries of the world.

That's a lot of educating.

TheMouseRanUpTheClock · 09/12/2011 16:29

I think a lot of children at 14, are easily lead and lack confidence, it is not cool to do your homework etc and they don't feel as bright as they are.

I have to say, my youngest was put down so much at juniour school it took a great deal to get her to see herself as bright. Myself and a private tutor I had for the children for a few years, were the only one's who had faith in her, if we had not, the schools would have convinced her she was not bright. I moved her from that school, she was finally out of having to leave class for extra help with various things, she never needed any extra help, therefore she was singled out with a few others and teased, in the new school and in her year six sats she got all level 5! So many children are put down and written off, when they shouldn't be.

MmeLindor. · 09/12/2011 16:32

Hello

Am back. Been out all day and am ready for bed again but will try to catch up first.

Original poster
AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 09/12/2011 16:32

hully don't be put off by the cogent, well researched, cross referenced blog posts

did you see mine at the beginning ? Xmas Shock

I shall be contributing again, when I get time (not this weekend, am away). All you need, I think, is a clear voice and the emotion behind it

this clever lot can help you out by adding stuff

shirl that was fab, lady

sorry to not be around much, today (working) and over the weekend (away from t'internet entirely)

I solemnly promise to froth away mightily next week x

OP posts:
RatherBeOnThePiste · 09/12/2011 16:38

You are right Knotty - that is a whole lot of educating, but God it would be better if there were a shift in attitude.

I am sick of being asked at parent meetings if I think a child is 'bright' or going to be academic because of course that is the only measure of success isn't it?

TheMouseRanUpTheClock · 09/12/2011 16:43

There are so many different ways to be "bright", socially, academically, emotionally, you are lucky if you are bright in all three aspects, you can also be tallented in various things such as sports, arts etc.

KateFrothers · 09/12/2011 16:49

In my previous working life we had a lot of people who had loads of qualifications (think two postgrad degrees etc) applying for entry level cashier jobs and they didn't get them because they didn't have good enough soft skills like empathy, common sense, self-motivation.

My heart used to sink every time I got a CV that was a list of academic achievements and no real work experience. The best staff I ever employed (and we're talking up to Branch Manager level for a bank - not CEO types) was a school leavers, an ex-sahm who hadn't worked for 15 years and a lady who had been imported as a bride for her cousin.

There are definitely industries and jobs where academic ability is secondary to practical skills.

Until we have people in government who have done proper jobs I doubt we will see a shift in attitude. If you went to Eton, the Oxford, then politics you're not going to get it.

RatherBeOnThePiste · 09/12/2011 16:52

And yet academics are seen by many as the measure of success. And I'm talking the earliest stages of primary school here Sad

KateFrothers · 09/12/2011 16:59

I know it's sad. Not everyone can be in the top 20% and I actually think it's ok not to want to be.

KateFrothers · 09/12/2011 17:08

I've just watched Newsround. I'm still none the wiser regarding this Europe business although I did see Sarkozy slagging David Cameron off. It was in French, but even I could tell he was tres pissed orf.

I'm going to have to read the paper thoroughly tomorrow. Maybe the Guardian have done a wall chart?

KateFrothers · 09/12/2011 17:28

OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!

Zoe Williams has just tweeted that she has put us in the paper tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

niceguy2 · 09/12/2011 17:50

Kate. Basically Sarkozy's pissed off because Cameron's refused to agree to a new treaty which essentially would:

  1. Mean we have to get our national budgets approved by the EC. Ie. if we want to spend £x on pensions/NHS/whatever then some EU bureaucrat has to agree even though it's not his money and nothing to do with him.

  2. They want to introduce a Tobin tax on banks. A tax which we'd pay 80% of to pay for a failing currency we're not a part of.

  3. The answer to Europe's problems is to have more of it. Think United States of Europe. in actual fact it might actually work. I mean in the US the federal government oversees state govt's and can override them. However, that's not something the vast majority of Brit's would want to be a part of.

TheMouseRanUpTheClock · 09/12/2011 17:55

Well done Frothers!

MmeLindor. · 09/12/2011 18:04

oooh, good one, Frothers.

Might even make my parents buy a Guardian. Sure it would be the first time EVER that they have done so.

I am a bit hazy on the ESA stuff, but am sure that whoever writes the post on it will make it clear to me.

Europeans are pretty damned pissed with Cameron, huh? Off to read the German papers, might get a blog post out of it.

MmeLindor. · 09/12/2011 18:06

Niceguy
Thanks for that info. Interesting. In your opinion, is it a disaster that UK is staying out of this? The papers are full of "isolated UK".

Dare I read the Daily Mail?

niceguy2 · 09/12/2011 18:28

It depends what you define as a disaster. 26 out of 27 nations want to go ahead now so we're billy no mates at the moment. If you think that's a disaster then it is.

But the UK has a lot more to lose than the other countries from the proposals. Like it or not, the City pays over 10% of all our taxes and employs over a million people. We need to sort out that sort of imbalance but on our terms, not by agreeing to changes which could decimate our biggest service industry.

Personally I think what the French/German's have done is akin to blackmail. Ie. Give us a load of your money because we've borrowed too much or we'll make sure no-one's your friend anymore.

lubeybaublely · 09/12/2011 18:37

Who put us in the paper? Shock what paper? OMG!

Can anyone explain, in a way that you would to maybe a ten or twelve year old child, what the actual fuck is going on with the eurozone? From the beginning? Please?

I really want to understand but even the BBC's explain-it-very-slowly- special section is beyond my concentration today.

Anyway, hello #frothers. I am an emotional, exhausted wreck after the rollercoaster of contradicting information yesterday and reading the welfare reform bill and one of the most difficult working weeks of my life. URGH.

I could really do with Wine but have none as I went off it for ages Angry and it's toooo cooooold to go out now. Hmpf.

KateFrothers · 09/12/2011 19:16

Thanks niceguy I get the gist but I think I'd like to see the details.

lubey it is Zoe Williams, mighty Titan of The Guardian. One of my personal heroes and all round good egg. I am so excited!

MmeLindor. · 09/12/2011 19:17

Hmm. I can see what you mean, NG, but at the same time I think that Britain has always had their European cake, eaten it and made trifle out of it as well.

We cannot dictate terms if we do not fully engage.

I think that Cameron lost his chance when he refused to contribute to the Greek bailout - have seen this complaint in the German press quite a bit.

MmeLindor. · 09/12/2011 19:30

Lubey
I found this in the Telegraph:

The measures for closer fiscal union will include:

  • Eurozone states' budgets should be balanced or in surplus.
  • This rule will also be introduced in eurozone member states' own national legal systems; they must report national debt issuance plans in advance.
  • As soon as a euro member state is in breach of the 3pc deficit ceiling, there will be automatic consequences, including possible sanctions, unless a qualified majority of euro states is opposed.

There were also financial measures agreed to bolster the eurozone's ability to rescue indebted nations:

  • EU countries agreed to provide ?200bn in bilateral loans to the IMF to help tackle the debt, with ?150bn of the total coming from the eurozone countries.
  • The European Stability Mechanism (ESM), the permanent resuce mechanism due to come into force in July 2012, will be capped at ?500bn (£423bn).
  • The ESM will not get a banking license, as had been proposed by Herman Van Rompuy of the European Council, because Germany opposed it.

So what I understand is that if the EU countries spend more than they should (ie. has more debt than allowed) that they will get their knuckles rapped. They will have to report to a central European institution.

This is to ensure that they don't get deeper into debt without consequences.

I was chatting with my mum earlier about DH, and saying that it is weird that although he works for a massive US (manufacturing) company, lots of people in Germany haven't heard of it. When he tells an American he works for XX company, I explained, it is like telling a German he works for Mercedes. Or Siemens.

Then I said, "It would be like telling a Brit that you work for ... for... erm..."

We could not think of an equivalent. A powerhouse of British industry, somewhere so Ur-British that everyone knows the name.

What has happened to the manufacturing in UK?

MmeLindor. · 09/12/2011 19:30

Whooops, that looks like a huge post. Most of it is quoted from the Telegraph.

NorfolkNCarolSingers · 09/12/2011 19:51

We are going to be in the paper?! Well bugger me backwards with a banana that is amazing for how young the blog is!

lubeybaublely · 09/12/2011 19:58

Oh yes I remember hearing about ZW a couple of days ago - durr, sorry tired brain.

That is totally amazing Shock Will go and buy it and be super proud! Big congragulations and pats on the back to all #frothers :o

Thanks Mme for the telegraph post.

niceguy2 · 09/12/2011 19:59

Lubey, the way it can be looked at is that the UK is like a girl at school whom is always awkward and noone really likes. Unfortunately she's part of the school so to a certain extent you have to put up with her.

The school has now asked everyone for a 'donation' and to agree to new rules because things aren't working and it's skint but we're refusing because we didn't cause the problem in the first place. Crucially we're the only ones refusing so everyone else is accusing us of not being team players and only interested in ourselves.

The popular girl's (Germany & France) are now going to make sure noone talks to us anymore. They're going to have their little meetings without us. In effect we'll be sat in the naughty corner.

Part of the problem though is that we joined the school thinking it was one thing and it turns out it's quite another. So we've been cherry picking which bits to involve ourselves in and refusing to do the things we dislike. This has won us no friends at all.

Longer term I think the fundamental question we need to ask ourselves is whether or not we want to stay in the school, find another school or home educate ourselves....