Greeks. Cats. Pigeons.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Greek PM calls a referendum on the bailout/austerity package.... doesn't tell his own Finance Minister. Trying to nut through the rationale for this move and failing miserably. Any takers?

'Why?'

I've already answered why. Population growth - the masses, the plebs.

All the ways the elites try to diminish the people - the talk of the feckless, the scroungers and teh ridiculing of ordinary people in tents who dare to protest at teh excesses of the system.

They use divide and rule. They try to convince you that you are different to the people in the tents. But you aren't. To the elite, you are just the same as the people in tents. You'll be eating their environmentally friendly "staple food" along with everyone else, apart from them of course.

You are part of the 99% along with the protestors. You're not one of the 1%.

OK, thanks for replying, but I still don't 'get' it. You say that they use divide and rule tactics. I am asking why. To what ends does it benefit them for me to be divided up? I understand that it makes the populations easier to control but my question is why do they feel the need to control us at all? Why do they want me to eat insects? What do they stand to gain?

If many of the 'scare stories' out there (Global warming, population explosion world hunger, dwindling resources etc) are threats that have been essentially made up to frighten us and keep us in our place - wherever that may be - what is their incentive? What do they benefit from this course of action?

If there is, as I strongly suspect, no immediate danger from climate change, no threat to resources and a credible solution to the famines and drouts etc, why go to all the trouble of ringfencing the earths resources for your own use at the expense of everyone else?

Finally, if there is a hugely wealthy and greedy entity out there who is trying to hoover up as much money as they can for their own ends what do they hope to do with their vaults of money when they have it all? Having a big pile of money or gold is useless without someone to trade it with. If you went back to the stone age with a wallet stuffed full of cash you might well be the richest man in the world but without anyone to trade it with, or without anything worth buying beyond the umpteenth stone axe head, there isn't much point to owning wealth at all.

I'm sorry, but to me, this just sounds like paranoia.

Now you're getting to teh heart of it. But you are asking huge questions, which could take lots of time to explain if you are still unaware of what is behind it.

But in simple terms, it is about population growth and stopping it happening. This is no different to the old battles between the patrician orders and the plebeian clases in Ancient Rome. Labour's Tribune group was named after the plebeian tribunes. Nothing really changes - the patricians vs the plebeians and the elites vs the 99%.

It's got nothing to do with money or capitalism, but everything to do with control and power. The rising world population threatens the patricians' control of world resources. If billions of people start starving or dying of thirst because resources are held by patricians, then the billions may rise and threaten the power of the patricians.

If people receive free university education and are free of debt, they become independent and may start asking questions.

Austerity is being imposed on people worldwide to stop them rising above their station, to keep them chained in debt, to stop them setting up tents on patrician land.

The patricians want to limit the people's prosperity and limit their numbers. They want to educate people that large families are not "environmentally friendly". They want you to eat ants, because despite their "experts", they know that anst are no substitute for meat in a healthy diet.

Here you see the elite's green puppets trying to educate the plebs how bad large families are

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jul/17/population-control-beckham-family

In the days of serfdom, the nobles used to ride around lording it over their serfs. They kept the serfs down, just as the Spartans kept the helots down and the Communists kept the people down.

In those days the aristocracy was much taller than the common people, because they ate healthy diets, they had feasts of meat and everything else while the common people subsisted on paltry supplies.

'Let them eat ants' is turning the clock back and reestablishing the divide between the elites and the people.

It's really only in teh last 100 years that humanity has been freed from its chains, that women received education and that poor people could go to universities en masse.

Austerity will turn the clock back and put us back in our box, and it will all be sold to us as necessary to "save the planet" for the patricians.

If people receive free university education and are free of debt, they become independent and may start asking questions. Two problems with this. Firstly, studies consistently show that the greatest, quickest and safest way to reduce population is to educate women. With an education women can get a job, they are weathier and have smaller families. If the clandestine cabals put as much effort into educating women in the third world, we might just get somewhere. Secondly, wouldn't someone be more likely to ask questions if they are hugely in debt to the machine?

I read the Guardian piece but to be honest, I wouldn't wipe my arse with that paper so I tend to take it with a huge pinch of salt. My inner Libertarian instincts jar with the premise that women can only breed as many times as the government decrees.

the aristocracy was much taller than the common people, because they ate healthy diets incidentally, this was true as recently as the First World War where the British officer class was, on average, two inches taller than a typical enlisted man.

Yes, you are right. Population control is the elite's main priority worldwide, which is why they do the good thing of supporting women's education in the third world, as well as campaigns for condom use and birth control. Not everything the elite do is bad.

The mortgage system ties people down. They can't just strike and withdraw their labour very easily because they have to pay their debts. Therefore they are not free agents, and can only protest for so long. The miners' strike was broken in the end because people need to pay their bills. The more in debt you are, the more unfree you are. The Greek people know that they are effectively slaves of the banks and elites who now own their country lock, stock and barrel.

That article was in the progressive Guardian, but you will find similar articles everywhere and on TV as well.

Yes, it was after the First World War that our society began to change. The elite had to give more power and representation to the masses, after their huge losses in the Great War, because the masses had awoken and would accept nothing less.

Now we can afford to eat meat every single day, just like teh nobility always has. But our grandparents often ate meat only once a week, and across teh world many people can only afford to eat meat less than that.

We are much better off than we were. But it could easily be reversed. We could be told that meat is unhealthy for us and "environmentally unfriendly". We could be tricked into believing that we should eat ants, because as the ambassador said "there are no other alternatives".

We could be tricked in exactly the same way that many people have been tricked into believing that we have "passed the tipping point" and the future is one of "catastrophic climate change".

Ireland is also in a very bad way. It will take the Irish people years to escape from the debt that they have been burdened with, thanks to their banks and politicians.

"Save the planet".... is all going to go well onto the back-burner surely?

When times were good & in true Maslow's Need Hierarchy fashion we were A-okay on our physical needs, safety and belonging, we indulged our self-esteem and higher moralities on planet-saving - as did national governments. Now the tables are turned, the world is a lot less comfortable and we're not even sure of getting our physical needs met, aren't we all totally unbothered about organic farming or wind turbines? And aren't governments a little more motivated about industry and commerce and where all the missing growth is going to come from... than they are about cutting emissions?

Cogito, I hope you are right. The progressives are no longer in power and we see that Osborne is beginning to oppose some of the green policies and there is a reported rift with Huhne. I have faith in Osborne and the team. They have been dealt a very bad hand by the progressives who left power with a note saying "sorry, there's no money left" and which some have said contained the signature "The Elite".

Osborne is a pragmatist and has said that he won't bankrupt Britain to save the planet. Even Newsnight, the Establishment show, had Paxman say a similar thing (the first time I have ever heard him say something like that) to Labour's Caroline Flint.

I think the times are changing. The progressives left Osborne with a Herculean task and their siren voices still try to fool the public and deflect Osbornysseus from his task to save the public finances. But Gideon can rise to a challenge of Biblical proportions.

'Planet saving' may be on the back-burner but 'interest protecting' is still current. Far from bankrupting the country, I think if anyone's looking for areas for future growth in which to invest or train up for then the 'Green' Sciences' are relevant. Even if there was no such thing as global warming etc., technology and practices that make the country more energy-efficient, more self-sufficient and less reliant on fuels from the more unstable parts of the world has to be worth a punt.

Ultimately, though, the last laugh is on the 99% as the 15 are mortals too. they can't take it with them, whether they're 7 foot tall or 5 foot. Plus that's without mentioning the world to come...I take it none of your 1% was religious? Or they'd be somewhat worried - quite take away the fun of that boeuf bourguignon.

1% not 15 - ergh - hate the broken caps lock on my laptop :(

Yes, I doubt that they can be religious because what is really hidden behind the population control and global warming creed is absolutely shocking and can't be squared with religion.

But remember that God allegedlly spoke to Bush and Blair to do it, so people can convince themselves that it is religious.

You only have to watch Ken Russell's fantastic film "The Devils" to see what some nuts will do in teh name of religion.

Greek PM did the right thing.

shame about ours.

The Greek PM - I now think - is doing the right thing for him. He'll be voted out of office shortly and will disappear to some pleasant retreat, able to say with a shrug of the shoulders that at least he was prepared to put it to the people. Those left will probably accept the bail-out package and the Greek people will hate them for it, even if they think it's the right thing to do.

I think our government are doing a better job than we give them credit for.

I think that Cameron is just biding his time, watching it all implode from the sidelines.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/janetdaley/100115292/eu-threats-to-greece-become-more-hysterical/

Claig, I can see where you are coming from and I agree with you about climate change, I've said similar thing on here before.

Ants, I have to say have passed me by. I've heard nothing about ants, are any of the proffered ants chocolate coated? :)

You and others might like this on Greek Debt, I like the unicorn pinata idea (x posted on In The News):Greek Debt

Breaking news on SKY - referendum scrapped.