Libya is to become a fundamentalist islamic state

[bemybebe]

Just watching Sky's link to Lybia where the Chairman of NTC is addressing a crowd in Benghazi. Just proclaimed that Libya is to adopt sharia as legal basic with all the beauties of rights for women, polygamy, etc.

Is this what the UK was fighting for when supporting the rebels?

Democracy to Libya and human rights my arse!!!!!

Did he really say that

Here's what the BBC has on its website so far. It says it will take six months for the new constitution to be ready, and that there will be a referendum on it. That all sounds promising.

Is it at all possible that they are having to fall back on sharia law temporarily simply to fill a post-Gahaffi void?

No idea, I was listening to what he was saying to the crowd (via the sky translator of course)...

Sky is now reporting that sharia is going to be a base for the law. Political advisor is being interviewed saying they are just "falling on their heritage".

I was just when Mustafa Abdul Jalil specifically mentioned that the law prohibiting polygamy is to be repelled. Is this really on the forefront of his mind right now?

That is worrying, but we can hope for some kind of middle ground. Sharia law isn't just about women's rights and they were not likely to abandon all traditions overnight were they.

Imagine telling the average Libyan that over here we tell criminals "now don't do that again or we will be really cross!"

If they have elections then the people can vote for change if they want.

Well, those that have the vote or able to vote without fear can vote for what they want...

Bella Sharia does not give the same voice to the some minorities (eg other religious groups), persecute others (gays), large groups get the status of second rate citizens (women).

Nazis were voted into power also "democratically", still does not make it right.

After 42 years of dictatorship, Libya doesn't even have the basic structure of a functioning government or a political system. In its favour, however, it does not have the tribal factions of somewhere like Iraq and its 6.5m people have a strong national identity. The twin beauty and difficulty of democracy (or the version of democracy they adopt) is that the people will elect exactly who they want and the main islamic party is one of the strongest contenders. However, I have heard at least one interview with representatives of that party, promising no religious oppression. They know that the people have no appetite for more oppression and there must be significant pressure coming from western governments.

There is not one single version of Sharia Law.

bemy that was my point really... Only those that have the vote will be voting and, of those, I doubt all are really free to vote freely. To be blunt, I'm not surprised by this. I assumed we were "looking after our interests" (ie oil). I don't think any governments give a stuff about people in other countries and not much for their own.

If all we'd wanted was oil we'd have supported the status quo. Gadaffi in recent years was glad-handed by Tony Blair and increasingly seen as someone we could do business with. If western goverments hadn't 'given a stuff' about the people of Libya, they'd have let him bomb Misrata, execute all the ring-leaders, waited for the dust to settle and carry on as normal. Sure, by helping the rebellion, we've secured an influential place at the table of whatever new government forms and there should be some nice contracts coming our way from a grateful free Libya. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with our government looking after our interests.... that's what they're paid for.

Looks like Tunisia is going to lead the way. First results show a strong result for ghannouchi's followers.
Very unsettling.

Btw, very good posts cogito

suspect what will happen is

• for 6 mths things nothing will get done and everyone will get gradually more and more disillusioned that everything hasn't been fixed yet
• there will be an election. Someone will win
• the people that don't win will be pissed off and accuse the winners of vote rigging
• shots will be fired
• civil war

I am not an expert by any means, but I heard that tribalism is rife in Libya.

I agree with you that the reason for interfering were primarily humanitarian, rather than oil, etc, but I wonder now if we should have just stayed away and let them get on with their internal struggle themselves. Why do we get involved at huge expense into situation that we cannot control and thus help into power the forces that have no democratic intentions? Did the rise of Taliban and Osama experience did not teach us anything?

Nope. We never learn. I think the problem is that you can solve the immediate problem fairly easily, by throwing money and arms at the rebels. However, the harder problem is that the power vacuum that inevitably results is very unpredictable and difficult to control.

It's like adopting a cat out of kindness and then realising that you cant afford to feed it

What are the Europeans going to do now? Irak all over again unlikely but the spoils are in play so who knows how greedy foolish they are

Hmm.. Not seeing us doing much of a humanitarian nature in Syria or Bahrain where our interests are, perhaps, being served already?

To be honest, though, I don't know enough about the in depth arguments to really state a good case on this. My ill-inforned opinion is that we do not do anything much of a humanitarian nature unless other interests are also served.

Wholly unsurprising. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannae make it drink after all.

Cognito is right on the oil though. The status quo was a much better bet in terms of ensuring supply than the rebels who might be fruit loops for all we know

Libya needs oil revenues. Europe= easiest and most obvious customer. Gadaffi = shrewd businessman as well as tyrant. Not a problem

Now= ?????????

Many are waiting for their turn to line their pockets. Europeans can't ignore that. Too easy, too tempting

"help into power the forces that have no democratic intentions?"

Their intentions are to form a 'moderate muslim' government within a month, a constituent assembly to set basic laws inside 8 months and parliamentary/presidential elections about a year after that. The more democratic they set things up, the bigger incentives will be offered by their western friends. Nothing is cast in stone but I wouldn't like to be the person that disappointed the Libyan people in the mood they are now by short-changing them on democracy

libya didn't need a government, the ppl ran the country themselves.

they had free utilities, the basic human right to own a home for free, ppl got given money when they married, money when they had a child.
this is what happens when a country has plenty oil....it becomes wealthy and gaddafi shared that wealth with his ppl.

gaddafi was going to introduce the gold dinar into the monetary system and this is what other countries were scared of and had to stop.

gaddafi wasn't perfect, but his country pretty much was until NATO invaded it.
now we get their oil and the gold dinar currency will not happen, that's the win that NATO wanted.

Yes feirless if you conveniently forget about the mass graves with thousands of dead people in them that Gadaffi found undesirable.

feirless

Hitler was misunderstood too, same for Mussolini?

"gaddafi shared that wealth with his ppl."

That's utter rubbish. Libya could have been a wonderful place but Gadaffi kept the wealth for himself and his cronies. The people saw nothing of it. Why would happy people, given free everything in a 'perfect' country want to rise up and rid themselves of their benevolent leader?

feirless - if you really think that is true, then why on earth would the rebels have fought as long and as hard as they did? Why would there have been so many of them? Why did so many of Gadaffi's men defect?