Occupying Wall Street?

[SephreniaRidesABroomstick]

I've just come across this occupation of Wall Street(]]www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2011/09/29/the-declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/ link]]) but I really don't understand how it all started and what results it's meant to yield.

Can someone dumb it down for me? I'd like to understand it but as it appears to be already way under way, I've become kind of lost. It does all appear to be rather idealistic and hopeful (which is no bad thing!) and movements and rallies like this always seem to get beaten back down again by the state.

I'd like to know what, if anything, makes this one different to others.

alice what are you on about viz capitalism being on trend? ANTICAPITALISM is the leit motif of the occupations.

Capitalism is moribund and near its final moments. Its death throes are killing us. We know that. Why do you think the financial districts are being targeted for occupations?

And what ttosca posted weren't the DEMANDS. These are:

LIST OF PROPOSED "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS"
CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass?Steagall_Act --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass?Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm?Leach?Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007?2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass?Steagall_Act#Repeal . Vote Here
USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list. Vote Here
CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media. Vote Here
CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's. Vote Here
CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.
CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS. Vote Here
CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control. Vote Here
ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight. Vote Here

How ANYONE can say these demands are in any way analogous to the TEA Party is either seriously deluded or in bad faith. Or just has no idea of what they're talking about. The Tea Party is an extreme right militant wing of the Repuglican party financed by corporate suits and peopled by loons. And with next to no real support yet when 40 of them pitch up the media cover the nonevent big time whereas the media blackout of the Occupations continues.

glasnost - most of those 'demands' won't end capatism. Some might even make it more democratic, responsive and resilient.

But my absolute favourite is:

""USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions)" BLESS

Democratic, responsive capitalism? Oxymorons, anyone?

From breathtaking naivety to breathtaking cynicism in your second bit ,jackstarb. Ah well. Have fun with your democratic (sic!) capitalism.

Glasnost - name another economic system which is capable of supporting a democratic government.

And if you expect the world to take your demands seriously - you kinda need to get your facts straight first.

jack-

ttosca The corporations accused are varied, in different industries and possibly have very little in common with each other. Protestors will undoubtedly disagree about which would be the priority grievances to address first.

Of course the corporation accused are varied. The protest isn't about any specific industry or set of industries. It's about the the way that large corporations have subverted democracy in the name of profit.

It's a long list of the 'usual suspects' of left-wing grievances with a touch of almost libertarian paranonia thrown in.

No paranoia. 'Poisoning the food supply' isn't meant to suggest that corporations attempted to poison the population, rather that some have dumped chemicals in to the environment which have damaged the ecosystem, harming people and animals. Do you need examples?

Would be interested in the UK version - as this US list isn't totally relevant here.

Sure it is. What parts are not relevant?

"They mostly are blameless. The public didn't cause the financial crisis."

ttosca - yet most weren't protesting these grievances during the 'boom' years.

Yet many were. As things are getting worse, more people are participating. As more and more of the middle-class are shafted, we'll see more of them participate. When the protests become majority middle-class, like Egypt, we will hit a critical mass, and then there will be no going back.

Don't forget - Labour implemented 'light touch' regulation for good reasons - finance and business growth bank-rolled much of their investment in the welfare, health & education.

And?! Do you still think this is about New 'Labour' vs. Tory scum? Do you think the millions (yes, millions) of people protesting around europe are protesting against their conservative governments? It's not about the Tories. It's about a broken political and economic system.

And now Miliband is proposing a whole new bunch of tax-loopholes to reward "good business practice" They will never learn.

Who cares? Labour isn't going to solve any of the problems the world is facing. They, too, are beholden to corporate interests.

jack-

Glasnost - name another economic system which is capable of supporting a democratic government

Capitalism is unable to support democratic government. That's precisely why people are protesting.

tosca - So go on then - name an economic system that will support democracy.

&:

"Sure it is. What parts are not relevant?"

1. "They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance."

1. "They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage."

And

3 "They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right"

• though I'm not even sure what this means. Banks lending to students??

ttosca I hope you know you're dangerously close to that Luxemburg woman with this 'descent to barbarism' idea. Just remind me of the other choice again? On the tip of my tongue...

glasnost hope you're OK and not among the 700(?) arrested on the bridge. Maybe I misheard that number. Sadly (typically) the Manchester occupation was short-lived and got rained off.

alice-

Socialism or barbarism. ;)

alice I hadto abandon the occupation due to family demands. (teehee). And the sodding flu.

Which is typical to so many who'd like to protest but are hamstrung by responsibilities.

Capitalism's kaput, jackstarb, and I'm seriously amazed when I come across people who haven't twigged that yet.

Rosa Luxemberg was one of the great political thinkers yet noone in the UK has heard of her. Where I live there's a road named after her. Yep. It's gotta be SOCIALISM, folks. We've already banged on about this on here and the political alternatives espousing a credible anticapitalist agenda. These choices DO exist.

www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html

Koch bros are two of the shadowy dodgy demons behind the Tea Party.

This is what we're fighting against. Capitalism taken to its logical conclusion as embodied by this dodgy duo.

So which democracy has SOCIALISM as it's economic system then, Glasnost?

There isn't one as socialism hasn't been properly implemented ever. There've been perverse mutations of it but in its pure form has yet to be implemented, anywhere. If you're a victim of rightwing media/propaganda who believes China is socialist or Cuba is socialist or Stalin's bloody Russia was well nowt I can do about that...........still am busy organising the revolution jack. Catch yer later!

You carry on wih your putrescent capitalism as illustrated in KOCH bros link.

Ok then Glasnost -

Buona fortuna. Viva la rivoluzione

Grazie mille!!!

Right - that's me, ttosca and glasnost with names down for the Provisional Central Committee. Any more?

glasnost lots of pics and TV of NY. We could maybe spot you like Where's Wally if you can get yourself a hat?

alice I'm not there anymore unfortunately. I got the flu and a small child!

p.s alice read ALL posts you've missed not just the last few. I've already stated umpteen times I'm not in NY anymore.

Thought I had. I'd assumed your absence was temporary.

Not temporary. But you can take my place if you wanto! I

Apparently NY is even worse than GB for wheelchair access, prob. not helped by pepper spray either, so I'll pass. Might see you on the LSX? Lutta continua as they say

Lotta Continua.

15 Oct will be in Rome. HUGE demo there.

Nice to know MN hasn't been completely colonised by snidey rightwingers.