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The elderly verses todays middle classes.

71 replies

ivanhoe · 21/08/2011 21:10

Today's largely self interested middle class generation probably dont know or care that our elderly people came though much harder times, if they didnt have something, they went without. And they paid their contributions and their taxes when working

I despise Thatcher for her facist doctrine of the individual over society and community.

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Blueberties · 24/08/2011 11:40

Oh please.

OneMoreChap · 24/08/2011 11:53


fair to add that in previous generations, most folk at 60ish were very unlikely to have been looking after their parents.

ivanhoe · 24/08/2011 12:14

"Oh please", be damned.

Thatcher spewed out her retorich for people to get what they could while and when they could, leading to a get rich quick society.

While at the same time reducing old age pensions, stopping the building of council houses, getting rid of our manufacturing bases, and destroying our infrastructure, whilst also abolishing mininim wages, and the structure of our welfare state, including underfunding all our vital services.

Thatcher did more damage to our country than what Hitler did during World War two.

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Blueberties · 24/08/2011 12:31


OneMoreChap · 24/08/2011 12:33


Barking in her last term or two, with her popularity ridiculously boosted by the Falklands.

Her election was a reaction to "Crisis? What Crisis?" Callaghan, and the overweening issue of union power.

As an ex NE boy, it wasn't Thatcher broke the miners. It was Scargill.
Our "infrastucture"? Remember party lines? That was how the GPO handled demand.

Our manufacturing base? British Leyland - a wonder of exports there.

chibi · 24/08/2011 12:36

How many successive governments have there been after thatcher?

I can only assume that she put in to law some sort or clause preventing the repeal of any of her acts, because given that it has been thirtyish years since she was in charge, it isn't as though there hasn't been time to undo things

cat64 · 24/08/2011 12:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

chibi · 24/08/2011 12:40

Orrrrrr there just isn't the political will on the left or the right

pamplemousserose · 24/08/2011 13:33

All my great grandparents lived until their 80s. Their children, the generation that lived through the war, just got on with looking after them without complaint. I have no resentment towards those 70+ who lived through the war, and experienced real hardships.

ivanhoe · 24/08/2011 13:55

chib, In case you didnt know, Blair and Brown from 1997, continued Margaret Thatcher's right wing free market policies, which are now also being continued by the Tory lead coalition.

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OneMoreChap · 24/08/2011 14:11


Good news about their longevity.
Very, very unusual - particularly for men - to live so long 3 generations ago.

My gran died in her late 90s, being looked after by my auntie, who's now in her late 80s, while I look after my mum who's in her late 70s.

Oddly enough, it doesn't occur to me that I should expect to be looked after by my children, but that I should seek to make adequate provision for myself - as I hope I have.

OneMoreChap · 24/08/2011 14:13

Have you a concise summary somewhere of the policies that you would like to see any future government enact?

Obviously, I guess they aren't going to be Labour policies.

MrPants · 25/08/2011 12:12

Ivanhoe, are you totally radio rentals? Thatcher was nothing more than a much needed reaction to the 1970's. In your pre-Thatcher paradise, British industry was hopelessly uncompetitive (mainly due to rampant and unchecked left wing trade unionism which had toppled the DEMOCRATICALLY elected government of Edward Heath) which resulted in massive tax payer funded subsidies for failing businesses (If you can't see what is wrong with that, you are an idiot).

By privatising industry and selling off council homes she gave millions of people a stake in the wealth of the country for the first time - the dividends of those sell offs (BP, BT etc.) still make up the bulk of pension funds - we both want to look after our pensioners don't we?

As for the classless society speech, which lefties have consistently (and presumably deliberately) misinterpreted, what is wrong with making the family the nucleus of our society, or would you really rather an all powerful state (such as those enlightened societies such as Germany '33-45, East Germany, North Korea or Oceania (from 1984))?

Finally, Thatcher left office in '91. In the 20 years since, the Tories have been in power for 6 years, Labour for 13 and the Coalition Government for 1. Those on the left have had ample time and a massive majority in Parliament, to 'fix' things yet somehow they haven't. I suspect that it's because Socialism has been proven to hold no answers for our society.

Solopower · 25/08/2011 17:50

Well, MrPants, not sure about your rather skewed historical analysis!

18 years of torydom before 1997 (think that's right?) left their mark and wouldn't have been that easy to undo, even if New Labour had tried. However, it's true that they haven't 'fixed' things. To do so, they would have had to take on the might of the globalised companies - and they were not confident enough to do so.

So, bullied by trade unions (according to you - I don't remember it like that) or bullied by global companies. Not much of a choice.

New Labour is/was not Socialism. I don't know anyone who thinks it was.

Blueberties · 25/08/2011 18:06

So what did Labour do then, in your eyes?

Why is anyone blaming the coalition view for anything after 12 months when you can't blame Labour after thirteen years?

What a strange view.

Solopower · 25/08/2011 19:17

I was very disappointed with New Labour, and I do blame them for all sorts of things.

I know it's important to learn the lessons of history, but I'm more interested in thinking about the future. Some of the Coalition's policies are really worrying, imo, and will be very damaging to lots of people - for years to come.

breadandbutterfly · 25/08/2011 19:36

ivanhoe - why have you taken to spamming a parenting forum with endless threads about supposed ageism?

Your views may or may not have mwerit but by starting endless rather aggressive threads on the topic in this slightly unlikely backwater you do your pet topic no favours and come across as - rather odd.

Surely one thread on the topic is sufficient?

ivanhoe · 25/08/2011 21:56


You know your stuff. It's a pity others, dont.

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ivanhoe · 25/08/2011 21:59

MrPants, we have'nt had a left wing Labour Government since the mid 70's.

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ivanhoe · 25/08/2011 22:01

So, now in not allowed freedom of speech, bread.

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ivanhoe · 25/08/2011 22:01

Bang on Solo.

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ivanhoe · 25/08/2011 22:05

/////By privatising industry and selling off council homes she gave millions of people a stake in the wealth of the country for the first time - the dividends of those sell offs (BP, BT etc.) still make up the bulk of pension funds - we both want to look after our pensioners don't we? /////

Yours have to be some of the most short sighted statements about Thatcher in British political history.

Yes she sold off council homes to sitting tenants, but she also stopped building council homes during the 80's therby depriving future generations of the same privilage.

Thatcher was an opportunist, she did what she did to gain power, and it worked.

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Blueberties · 25/08/2011 22:13

I agree about social housing but really you must be a bitter old communist to be blaming all today's problems on MThatcher's solution to the crisis of the seventies.

MrPants · 26/08/2011 11:25

Ivanhoe, can you explain to me why more than half of the money I earn through honest labour and the sweat of my brow (20% Income Tax, 11% National Insurance, 20% VAT, £1500 p/a Council Tax, 71% Tax on fuel for my car, plus associated road tax, luxury taxes etc.) can be extorted with menaces (threat of imprisonment) and given lock, stock and barrel to the great unwashed of unemployables, ne'er-do-wells and all the other waifs and strays our government seems fit to splurge MY money on? Can you see why the average Joe gets annoyed by a government that compels us to spend more of our hard earned money on other people?s families than on our own? The economic downturn has only affected those who try to play the game by going to work and earning an honest crust - the scum of the underclass are, as yet, totally oblivious to our hardships because their Giro's keep on turning up in the post, just as they did before the economy went tits up.

Can you then understand that when some Numpty turns up, whingeing that we're not lavishing as much cash on their particular client group as they would wish for, and demanding more tax off those that are already squeezed, they get short shrift.

If you'd come on here suggesting that we slash benefits to people who haven't worked or show no intention of working, and spend that saved money on OAP's, I suggest that you would have been cheered to the rafters - hell, even I would have agreed with you - we could cancel Trident, cut overseas aid or any other number of money saving ideas which would allow us to boost pensions a little bit. Menacing more money out of already hard pressed citizens is not going to work.

niceguy2 · 26/08/2011 13:24

MrPants, the thing is to ultra left wing people such as Ivanhoe, their political beliefs are so superior that they do not have to worry about things like affordability.

It's all a matter of political will. If people ask "How can we afford that?" then they're just selfish gits who want to keep money for themselves at the expense of the poor downtrodden.

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