Public sector workers need 'discipline and fear', says Oliver Letwin

[Tortington]

oliver letwin

How many people have worked in both the private sector and public sector and found themselves better off in the private? Not many, I suspect. Public sector jobs are like gold-dust in many parts of the country, and the amount of nepotism and corruption involved in being able to get one is disgusting, and turns a lot of people against the public sector. Then you have the fact that women are vastly overepresented in many areas (my brother was trying to get a PS admin job for years and would regularly turn up to aptitude tests and find he was the only male candidate there, he never did get a PS job) and the fact that many people end up feeling like banging their head against the wall after having to deal with some of the pig-ignorant people that work in local councils in particular. To say that the Tories have turned people against the public sector is ridiculous, there's been massive resentment against them for the last 15 years or more, particularly as immigration has caused normal working people's wages and job conditions to fall, but the public sector has been protected.

here, here drosophila. I have worked in both private and public. Most people i know who worked in the public sector like you did it because they felt a moral duty to serve their country and as a result got a great deal of job satisfaction. In the private sector - you just work to earn money. I was a project manager and was offered work in the private sector and an increase of 3 times my salary but i turned it down. I wanted to go home at night and now that even in a small way I had made a difference.

Just a little note from history. In 1979, public sector pay was directly linked to the private sector. When that woman got to power she told all public sector that this would end as they get 'good' pensions. As a result the public sector pay has steadily fallen behind comparable private sector professions (take me for example - I am a project manager) or compare the wages of a teacher to the tutor in a private training company (they can get up to £500 per day). So if those in the private sector - who choice not to get a private pension are moaning - tough - no one made you work in the private sector and i did not hear you moaning about all your great wage increases you got in the 1990's when we were all getting a max of 4% (half of which is performance related). Are you seriously telling me that nuses, doctors, teachers, fire fighters are lazy?

There are 400,000 public sector teachers in Britain. How many teachers in private training companies are there?

A lot of people (quite possibly MOST people) did not get "great wage increases in the 1990s".

It is amazing how many public sector people imagine they would be able to get top jobs in the private sector, but "choose to remain in the public sector to fulfill their moral duty". Give me a break, you aren't fooling anyone.

OL should join the Christian Brothers.

None of the govt ideas are the least bit original -- apeing of the American Republicans is the best they can come up with in virtually every area of policy regardless of the fact that Britain is a very different kettle of fish with a completely different culture and history, especially a different labour history.

Yes, it is very ironic that MT was essentially telling the public sector unions "Jam tomorrow"..

Agree with TartyDoris, most public sector workers could not get a job in the private sector. I have worked in both,but not long in the public sector, otherwise I'm sure I would not have got a job in the private sector.

the amount of nepotism and corruption involved in being able to get one
this is a pile of shit and you know it - the public sector is THE place where there are clear and transparent HR policies, including for recruitment, which is undoubtedly why there are more women represented in the workforce as, for example, overt discrimination against women of child-bearing age is not allowed. If you have actual evidence of corrupt practices (you know, something you could prove, not just something your friend's cousin's neighbour heard about) then you should be raising that with your local councillor or MP because that is of concern to all tax-payers. And just to submit some anecdotal evidence of my own, the only examples of nepotism I know of have occurred in the private sector.

many people end up feeling like banging their head against the wall after having to deal with some of the pig-ignorant people that work in local councils in particular

In particular? You mean that people who have dealings with, say, Ryanair, utility companies, banks, insurance companies, phone companies, etc, etc, do not come across pig-ignorant, lazy, incompetent jobsworths? I don't think so.

Human beings with all their numerous faults work in the public sector. Human beings with all their numerous faults work in the private sector. The only difference is that because the public sector is forced to be transparent in its operations, you get to hear more about about its failings. The exact same criticisms that are levelled at the public sector can also be levelled at the private sector.

offs going to hide this thread now due to the amount of people talking about their limited experience/knowledge of the public sector and how lazy and well off we are .

we have recently recruited a few people from the private sector who have commented how busy we are and how hard we work so please don't tar us all with the same brush!

yes I have worked in both and could get paid double if I worked in the private sector but I choose to stay in the public sector - why? because I am committed to the good that my org is doing to tackle some of the biggest issues facing our and future generations.

Great fantastic post mable

"If you have actual evidence of corrupt practices (you know, something you could prove, not just something your friend's cousin's neighbour heard about) then you should be raising that with your local councillor or MP because that is of concern to all tax-payers. And just to submit some anecdotal evidence of my own, the only examples of nepotism I know of have occurred in the private sector."
There is no nepotism in the private sector, who private sector organisations choose to employ is entirely up to them, they are the ones who will suffer because of it. Would you be happy if you employed your son to do small jobs for you and the government stuck their noses in?

As for evidence of nepotism in the public sector, I know of several entire families all working for the same PS organisation. How on earth can that be allowed to happen?

"yes I have worked in both and could get paid double if I worked in the private sector"
It's funny how everyone in the public sector thinks that. It can't be true. Yet somehow every single public sector worker thinks that they are being martyrs, despite earning a salary far above what many hard-working people in the private sector earn, and pensions that most people can only dream of.

Seriously, you're deluded. Try quitting your job and working in the real world if you think you are so hard done by in the public sector. You wouldn't last 5 minutes.

Thank you but I'm not actually. I know I could because of the job offers I've had based on the work I've done in both sectors. I'm not being a martyr I just like working for an org that is making a real difference. Even if people like you don't recognise what difference we are making to your lives.

Agree Mable :)

What organisation do you work for?

Do you think that all public sector people could earn more money if they had proper jobs? Surely the sheer numbers employed in the public sector will tell you that's not true?

It's just funny how everyone employed in the public sector imagines themselves as the equivalent to an elite private sector person. The truth is, most of them would be unemployed if their jobs were axed, or stacking supermarket shelves at best.

Yet somehow every single public sector worker thinks that they are being martyrs, despite earning a salary far above what many hard-working people in the private sector earn, and pensions that most people can only dream of.

I work in the public sector. I do not think I am a martyr. Stop with the sweeping generalisations based on your own prejudices and limited experiences. It makes you look like an idiot.

And if people in the private sector have poor provision for their pensions then a) that is a scandal that will come back to bite all taxpayers on the arse - who else will pick up the slack, some monied philanthropist? dream on - and shows what happens when people give up their collective bargaining rights for short term gains and b) not a reason to argue that public sector workers should have the same lack of provision. And, as many posters have already said, the vast majority of public sector workers do not have these mythical gold plated pensions that you have read about in the Daily Mail.

And I agree that many hard-working people employed in the private sector are very badly paid. Who picks up the slack for that in the form of tax credits? Tax payers are being fleeced to enable private companies to earn massive profits, by paying their workers poverty wages (ie minimum wage jobs).

Ooh does that mean I can beat DH? He's a teacher so perhaps he needs discipline and pain

Mr L always was a twat.

Tatty - I have rarely come across anyone who knows so little but yet is able to talk repeatedly and expansively on the subject.

Can't be bothered to read article cos Letwin is an oleaginous, unctious dick but Henry Ford had a culture of strict discipline with his staff. However, with the hugely significant difference of paying them a lot more than the going rate. Is Letwin suggesting that as well?

"And if people in the private sector have poor provision for their pensions then a) that is a scandal that will come back to bite all taxpayers on the arse - who else will pick up the slack, some monied philanthropist? dream on - and shows what happens when people give up their collective bargaining rights for short term gains and b) not a reason to argue that public sector workers should have the same lack of provision. And, as many posters have already said, the vast majority of public sector workers do not have these mythical gold plated pensions that you have read about in the Daily Mail."
What short term gains?

Who will pick up the slack for poor pension provision? No-one. People will be in poverty in their old age.

People haven't given up their collective bargaining rights, they just realise that they are pointless in the face of globalisation.

Do you really expect people working for lower and lower wages to be happy paying more and more taxation so that public sector people can be protected from the effects of globalisation? It's not sustainable.

Ford was making money hand over fist, and could afford to pay his workers more than the going rate. Britain is not making money hand over fist.

what do you mean protect public sector workers from the effects of globalisation?

a librarian's job can't be shipped over to bangalore. nursing can't be done remotely from mexico. etc etc.

also, mostly, when qualified people come over to the UK to work in the oublic sector, they are either paid on the same scale as native UK workers, or provided with a pathway which allows them to equalise/harmonise their qualificationsand be paid equally

i know whereof i speak - i qualified elsewhere, was paid on a different pay scale for a year while i jumped through various admin hoops, and am now paid on the same scale as my native UK colleagues, and with my years spent on the other scale recognised in terms of determining my pay grade

what on earth are you talking about?

It is quite an achievement by the Tories to demonise the public sector, when it was the private sector bankers that got us into this economic mess in the first place.

But it is true that most public sector jobs have not been opened to the forces of globalisation in the same way that most private sector jobs have.

It is quite an achievement by the Tories to demonise the public sector, when it was the private sector bankers that got us into this economic mess in the first place.
Bankers make up a tiny, tiny percentage of private sector workers, and we were spending more than we should have been on the public sector before the "Global Financia Crisis" even hit. Mainly in order to gerrymander votes for Labour.