Say NO to bailing out Portugal

[longfingernails]

They ran up huge structural deficits, just like Labour in the UK - but with the additional deadening weight of the euro.

They have decided not to implement austerity measures - let them pay the price. Their borrowing rates are soaring; meanwhile in the UK, thanks to the confidence of the markets in the Osborne plan, our borrowing rates are more or less the same as Germany's.

The Portuguese have choices. They can leave the euro, for example, and naturally devalue until they become competitive. If their politicians choose not to leave the euro, let the people of Portugal who elect them pay the price - certainly not British taxpayers.

Write to your MP TODAY to insist we don't bail out Portugal!

We must help our European Brothers and Sisters.

It depends if they will be allowed to leave. I don't think they have the say. Anyway we are very unlikely to be bailing them out, as usual it will be Germany who does so.

We're obliged to bail them out as we're signed up to the temporary stabilisation mechanism so we can't refuse. Add to that I suspect the nationalised banks liabilities to Portugal exceed the amount we'd have to pay to keep them afloat so a portugese default would be even more costly than helping them out.

How much are we liable for? I remember us saying we wouldn't be liable for too much over Greece because we are not in EMU. Germany bails all of Europe out. Without them the EU would collapse.

Why don't we just bomb them? End of. The international community's debating it right now and a nice tidy UN resolution can be rustled up in no time.

I see longtalons piloting the jets herself.

Claig- It depends how much Portugal need but estimatessay it may cost about ?3 billion

We "have" to bail them out because Alistair Darling, no doubt in an act of malice, signed Britain up to the "Stability" mechanism after Labour comprehensively lost the general election, but before the coalition was formed.

However, what exactly are the EU going to do if we just say no?

We won't say no, we never do. There'll be lots of acting, but in the end we do what we have to do, just like Portugal has to.

LFN- Refusing to comply with something we are obliged to do would cause severe diplomatic damage with other member states of the EU.

LFN when you join a club you follow all the rules not just those you like, who do you think we are the French!

Oh no! Diplomatic damage! We will have to deal with the wrath of van Rompuy!!

Who is da real Boss? Who makes laws removing our lightbulbs and who sets recycling targets? Berlusconi calls them communists, but he doesn't leave either. He can act all he likes, but he knows who da real Boss is.

It'll be fun when it's the UK that needs bailing out after one favour too many to the investment bankers, corporate CEOs and hedge fund heathens who really call the shots.

LFN- I don't think you should be so blaise about relations with other EU member states. The EUs strategy and policies are determind by a collective effort and if we alienate and marginalise ourselves by defaulting on our obligations then we are going to find keeping the relationships that we need in order to successfully influence European policy very difficult. Being on the periphery of decision-making isn't desirable.

We already are on the periphery of decision making. The EU steamrolls all over British interests, knowing that our governments, of whatever hue, will kowtow to them because of our stiff upper lip, or sense of fair play, or something.

A free trade zone doesn't need a president. It doesn't need a single currency. It doesn't need interfering Brussels busybodies. If it really was just a free trade zone, I would support it (and foolishly, did, for many years). However, the political dimension to the EU makes it worthy of nothing but contempt.

If Portugal wants to keep its Euro membership, it should pay the price. If that price is that the Portuguese people are reduced to peasants, then that is the choice of the Portuguese politicians. Why should Britain pay for their folly, just to preserve the federal dreams of Barrosso, Ashton and Rompuy??

How much power do you really think the Portuguese politicians have? About as much power as the Irish politicians had when they were told to rerun the vote over the Lisbon treaty and that this time they better get it right.

Poor old Portugal. If they borrowed from the IMF they'd get a far better deal. I'm just extremely grateful we aren't in the Euro. Even though we still have to cover the mistakes of those who are, it's better than being stuck with it ourselves.

What makes me barf is seeing all the free-market proponents talking as if there's some moral failing in Ireland, Portugal and Greece. The same shysters who justify all their shit by claiming economic decisions should be free of morality or sentiment.

LFN, you and I disagree about pretty much everything political, but I'm right there with you on the EU. From a different end of the spectrum, but equally appalled by the lack of democratic accountability.

edam There is a deep moral failing in all three of those countries. Namely, as you have identified, membership of the euro. If they left the euro they could devalue and become more competitive.

Whilst they would still have deep problems, at least they could have the monetary flexibility to give them a chance.

Instead, it is Britain who has to come to their aid, bailing them out just to preseve the vanity of the Euro-federalists.

Agreed. What Labour did was unforgivable. They decide to delay making cuts since they had a general election to try to win, found money to give the "poor" bribes free laptops then signed us into this stupid stablisation treaty.

Why on earth are we contributing towards what is effectively an insurance fund for the Euro when we could never take advantage of it.

It's a wake up call that the greedy, incompetent bastards in finance still expect taxpayers to pick up their bills. The institutions that lent money to Portugal, Greece, Spain and Italy made a bad decision. They should bear the consequences of that decision rather than expect every taxpayer in the EU to pick up the tab. If there are potentially serious negative consequences for the public, maybe we should look at risk-sharing - not dumping the entire risk on the taxpayer.

It's heads financiers win, tails the rest of us lose all over again.

And the austerity measures the financiers demand are so savage they will make the problem worse, not better. Ordinary people thrown out of work and plunged into misery while the fat cats get even fatter.

'LFN- I don't think you should be so blaise about relations with other EU member states. The EUs strategy and policies are determind by a collective effort and if we alienate and marginalise ourselves by defaulting on our obligations then we are going to find keeping the relationships that we need in order to successfully influence European policy very difficult. Being on the periphery of decision-making isn't desirable.'

My friends in the EU tell me is more like herding cats than a collective effort, and that certain nations try to railroad their points of view through by keeping people in meetings to silly o'clock and without food/water until they cave.

The EU is unaccountable, has an overinflated sense of its own importance, wastes so much money it just isn't true (EEAS), and is a complete waste of time.

It's a wake up call that the greedy, incompetent bastards in finance still expect taxpayers to pick up their bills. The institutions that lent money to Portugal, Greece, Spain and Italy made a bad decision.

No, the problem is Portugal is that the government have a huge deficit. They've been unable to agree where to make budget cuts (unlike our govt) so now either they pay an extortionate amount to borrow or they come cap in hand to the EU. They've opted for the latter.

So the blame is squarely on the Portugese politicians for not having the guts to do what is necessary and make the cuts necessary to live within their means. Now they want the rest of the EU to bail them out and subsidise their government spending.

We should say NO!