Say NO to bailing out Portugal

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They ran up huge structural deficits, just like Labour in the UK - but with the additional deadening weight of the euro.

They have decided not to implement austerity measures - let them pay the price. Their borrowing rates are soaring; meanwhile in the UK, thanks to the confidence of the markets in the Osborne plan, our borrowing rates are more or less the same as Germany's.

The Portuguese have choices. They can leave the euro, for example, and naturally devalue until they become competitive. If their politicians choose not to leave the euro, let the people of Portugal who elect them pay the price - certainly not British taxpayers.

Write to your MP TODAY to insist we don't bail out Portugal!

The Portuguese people are not a priority for the bigwigs. Let them eat cake, let them have cuts, let them strike is what bigwigs think. But for bankers it is different. Let them have champagne, let them have bonuses, let them have bailouts, let the people pay.

claig it's great to hear you've seen the light. You've won a hammer and sickle t shirt winging its way to you right now!

Portuguese politicians knew perfectly well that no matter long it takes, austerity measures will be necessary at some point, however, they did not want to take this bad news to their electorate. They effectively chose these measures are pressed on them from the outside as no bailout will be without stringent conditions. Nice mature attitude.

No because the hammer and sickle brigade are just puppets of the bankers. They are there to deceive the people.

Do you really believe that the Portuguese fat cats care about cuts for their people or that our fat cats do or anyone else's fat cats do? Do you think these fat cats will cut back their champagne. The fat cats do as they are told.

So, I'm intrigued. Who tells the fat cats what to do?

The really, really big fat cats, not the puppets fat cats. The super elite, the billionaires.

You can't stand by and leave the Portuguese people to suffer due to bastard bankers.

Oh please....more banker bashing to blind you from the truth.

Portugal haven't had a banking crisis like UK, Ireland and Iceland did. Their mess is entirely because they've lived beyond their means, borrowed money during the good times and now finding the concept of cutting their outgoings to what they can afford too unpalatable.

Whilst the good times rolled in the Eurozone, they borrowed money at nice low rates. Just like I may have borrowed money at a nice low rate when my credit rating was good.

But now I'm up to my neck in debts, the only "banks" who will lend are those who are willing to lend to riskier customers at a higher rate of interest. Who's faults that? Mine or the bank? Or should banks just dole out money willy nilly without regard to anyone's ability to pay back?

The Portugese government and by extension their people brought this upon themselves. I don't mind bailing out a friend if they are accepting they are in the shit. But whilst their head is in the sand and they think they can carry on with their ways....no way.

If we bail them out now without any stringent austerity conditions, it WILL be the end of the Euro.

Yes claig they're called plutocrats. We know that. Use the t shirt to do the dusting. Or do you have a Philipino maid (slave) to do that.

I agree they are plutocrats. The question is how far does their control extend? Who in fact are their puppets? Some who rail against them are very possibly also their puppets.

A lot of these problems were brought about by the Euro, which requires all countries within it to adopt similar monetary policies- i.e they all have to have the same base rate.

That means that a country like Portugal has the same interest rate as a country like Germany, even though the fundamentals of those 2 economies, inflationary pressures etc are quite different. No wonder it ends in a mess.

The ECB raised interest rates yesterday. The BoE held them, because it obviously thinks that on balance, low interest rates are better for the UK than low inflation. The Euro countries don't have the opportunity to do that tailoring to their own needs, and because they don't react as fast to changes in monetary policy, those changes often need to be more drastic, which is an arse if you're one of the countries that loses out from that policy.

and the Azores, they are supposed to be vair nice...............

I agree Bagged. Much of this stems from the Euro. In principle the Euro is a great idea.

And a clear set of rules was set to become members of the Euro. Top of the list was having a deficit of no more than 3%

Politicians being clueless and spineless wanted the benefits of the Euro without the pain of meeting the membership requirements. So the rules were bent here & there. Whilst the good times rolled, everyone turned a blind eye.

Now the music has stopped, we find countries like the PIGS who've blatantly ignored the rules are suffering.

The Euro became a currency made for political reasons rather than economics. Now politicians are trying desperately to save it against market forces. So if its a straight fight between politicians and economics, my money is on economics.

claig, don't kid yourself with that 't shirt' promise. It is a set of mao pigamas and a spade to build the 'bright future'. ;)

It's ok- Claig has rejected her "welcome to communism" present as communists are apparently in league with the bankers......

Euro was a very good system (and still is) for the countries of comparable strength and business cycle. Greece and Portugal in particular should not have pressed for Euro or been allowed in. Greece was actively hiding the extend of its deficit to meet the entry criteria.

Yep, communists are puppets, always were, always will be. They centralise control by brutal force into the hands of the state and the hands of the plutocrats. They disappropriate the people of their private property and wealth and hand it all over to the centralised controlling plutocrats.

bemybebe Greece was encouraged to enter the Euro, against many of its people's wishes, since they knew what the outcome would be. The puppet politicians took them in. The people who let them in knew the real state of economic affairs in Greece and in all the other potential entrants. They want them all in. It is a centralised form of control.

Once the people are impoverished and in debt up to their eyeballs, then they are slaves of the plutocrats. Plutocrats control and enslave the masses. They do it by using brutal communists to coral the people and rob them of everything they own or by using finance to enslave the people. Either way the plutocrats win and the people lose.

Well I wouldn't go that far, although certainly massive enthusiasm for the EU, the Euro, and expanding the eurozone as much as possible meant that certain countries turned a blind eye to the shortcomings of other countries which would have failed the "Suitability to be in the Euro" test on the first question.

Let's not forget who the most enthusiastic proponent of the Euro was- Germany!

It'll be Belgium next, especially with the lack of any Government here, but I don't think that even if we have to ask for help we would ask the EU, I think we'd go to the IMF.

SWC - know what you mean about France and the EU; they were incredibly unpopular when they held the revolving presidency trying to push their agenda through.

Of course Germany is the powerhouse of Europe. It is the paymaster of Europe. Lamont begged them to bail us out once upon a time. A blind eye was turned to all of the entrants' monetary situations, because it is vital politically, for the bigwigs, to get all the countries in. Once in, they can be squeezed economically and controlled centrally. A blind eye was also turned to the East German monetary situation, because it was vital politically to integrate East Germany with West Germany. The plutocrats and bankers play a long game. They have lots of money. Short term hardships and hiccups do not deter them from their goals of centralised control. Advisers can help countries camouflage their true financial state in order to gain entry to the club. The unions and people may protest that they don't want to be part of teh club, but the decision is not in their hands. Puppets will deliver the country to the club.

'I don't think that even if we have to ask for help we would ask the EU, I think we'd go to the IMF.'

What if the IMF say no or impose conditions that are too harsh. I think that just like Lamont did, we will be back knocking on Germany's door. But who knows how long the people of Germany will accept being milked so that their politicians can maintain their position in the club.

I am a little confused about what 'austerity measures' mean, in different countries. Have public employees in Ireland had their pay cut by 25%? Were they very high to begin with? Do public employees in Italy retire on 100% pensions? I don't understand why the careful Germans have to work longer to subsidise other EU countries.

claig you really should do the housework yourself occasionally in abid to purge yourself of that pent up energy that causes you to obsess over plutocrat conspiracies. It's all very simple actually.

You could always use the t shirt as a handy cloth to soothe your brow when all the puppet/eers schtick gets too much for you to contemplate.

It's called capitalism, bellezza.

It's got nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism and communism are just two different systems that people can live under. But both are under the control of plutocrats. it just depends where in the world you live as to which system you will live under. We are fortunate to live in the capitalist system as it gives more freedom to the people than the communists, who used to shoot people trying to climb the Berlin Wall to a better life, or imposed visa bans on athletes who might claim asylum as soon as they left the communist prison cage.

'I don't understand why the careful Germans have to work longer to subsidise other EU countries.'

the Germans have to subsidise the others, because they have the money, they are the milch cow that can keep the system going. Without the German powerhouse, control could not be maintained unless they unleashed the brutal communists on us.