so are you going to bother to vote on the electoral reform referendum?

[easternstar]

Or not?

To be honest I don't think either AV or first past the post is the best method.

When I did my government and politics A-level donkey's years ago I always thought that the fairest method was to have larger constituencies and make up the difference with a party list system based on percentages.

Hitler used referenda, so he may well have preferred AV.

oh no! Thread dis-in-te-grating. can't.... hold.. her.. ... much... longer...

Means of production owned by the people. What's not to like, claig?

Back to AV. Just say NO, kids.

Mind you Hitler used an electoral system that stopped the electorate from voting for second and third choice parties too... what does that tell you about David Von Cameron?? eh? eh?

then please leave the thread, Missing.

Ah, right, so now 'progressive' also means 'violent'. Right.

And Hitler was both 'progressive' and a Socialist.

This is brilliant political commentary. Really, it is.

ttosca, the thread was doing fine and was about AV until you derailed it because you took objection to the use of the word progressive to describe New labour, which is a term that New labour use to describe themselves and use in their slogan "building a progressive future".

I don't want to derail it further by explaining that Hitler was a socialist, a national socialist, and that he did in fact implement some policies that you would term progressive.

Yeah Claig the use of humans for experiments was ultra progressive and just what all socialists would advocate

Well good, keep your wacky politically-ignorant opinions to yourself.

wook, I don't recall saying that. I said he was a socialist and carried out some progressive policies.

Mubarak was also a socialist and was a member of the Socialist International until they revoked his membership in the last few months.

Blimey, whats the word for when a debate descends into bringing up hitler?
something's law perhaps?

not good.

ttosca I am only trying to correct your erroneous opinions and explaining to you that New Labour's slogan was "building a progressive future".

More AV &FPTP anyone?

'Blimey, whats the word for when a debate descends into bringing up hitler?'

I think it's called ttosca's law. Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

Yes let's get back to AV.

Yay AV!

Here it is; Reductio ad hitlerum: Godwins law

Reductio ad Hitlerum

So it seems that the majority of posters on this thread will vote for AV. I wonder if that will also hold true of the general public. Many of the public are probably not overly interested in the issue, so it may be that committed AVers stand a good chance.

Mubarak was as much a socialist as you are claig. And International Socialist aren't all that. There's Committee for a Workers International which is the real deal and has always rejected despots of any kind.

AV is the epitome of not seeing the wood for the trees.

Not on AV but I love the very useful list of fallacies in the 'see also' bit of the Wiki thingy on Reductio ad hitlerum.

Interesting about Mubarak, glasnost. What were his views on AV?

Ah yes wook, very useful, we have had many of these fallacies just within this thread - perhaps the no campaign is using this as a checklist?

Claig you are very cheeky to now bring up mubarak.

I didn't, glasnost brought it up again. I want to get back to AV and would prefer to discuss Mubarak's views on AV rather than the fact that he was a socialist

All Vexed. He said from exile in London. Yes that's right. He's in your neck of the woods as most ousted or fallen despots from oil rich countries tend to flee to.