TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

[OrangeBernard]

Who's going? I've just booked my train tickets. Its my first protest, any advice or tips? Bit worried about kettling.

Wubbly - your TUC 'alternative' link talks about a more 'progressive' taxation system. Yet, we already have one of the highest top rates of tax in Europe. I'm not sure how much head-room is actually there.

And closing £40bn PA tax worth of tax loopholes seems very optimistic. Tbh - if it were that easy, wouldn't Labour have done it? How seriously incompetent do the TUC think the last Labour government were?

Xenia, what do you know about 'how much fun' it is to be living on the minimum wage, not working, claiming benefits etc?

Ah. You read the Daily Fail.

I'm going to post some of my comments from the AIBU thread, as there weren't any answers there. Are there any answers I wonder? Apologies if it doesn't fit exactly with this thread but it's along the same lines.

"I was there yesterday because my daughter has lost all additional pre school support (she has additional needs), she's now six months overdue for a cardiac scan and is not being seen until JUNE, she has orthoptist appointments cancelled and scheduled for SIX months later.

My sons have lost their Aiming High for Disabled Children buddy scheme (they also have additional needs).

The government also want to reform DLA and change it to PIP, whilst getting rid of 20% of claimants. Being that fraud on this is practically non existent that means cutting those in genuine need. Oh, and if you have a wheelchair you'll be considered 'able to mobilise' and therefore get your PIP stopped.

Too bloody right I was there."

"Hence why I was fired up into protesting. It's the first protest I have taken part in on a national level, went to a small local one a few years back, so yes I was a little nervous.

Thing is this government does not give a shit about what has happened and is happening to my kids, and to other people with disabilities and their carers. I had to represent the five of us alone, and I feel so good for having done that."

"Sorry, but have any of the right wingers here heard what the cuts are actually DOING?

They are targetting the most vulnerable, the sick and the disabled. People who can't always get out there and earn for themselves without support.

Mind you I suppose being as Mainstream media don't give a shit about it people aren't hearing about it.

There is someone going to parliament tomorrow to meet with MPs about DLA restructure. Under the new proposals those able to mobilise would not be eligible for the mobility element of PIP. Having a wheelchair would be considered ability to mobilise. However this person cannot self propel a wheelchair so would need someone to push that wheelchair for them. Being as it's during the week they couldn't get a relative to help so they'd have to employ a carer, but how? They've lost their PIP. They can't afford to do that. It's not like they can just jump on a train, in fact a lot of public transport isn't actually wheelchair friendly yet.

So the disabled would be stuck in their homes, with their wonderful 'ability to mobilise' because like it or not having a disability IS more expensive. Their carers would not be able to claim financial assistance as if you don't get the PIP you don't get carers allowance, yet they still wouldn't be able to work and earn their own money because of their caring responsibilities. So they can't get housing benefit, so they lose the roof over their heads. How far does this have to go?????"

"My little girl has lost all pre school support. All of it. She's practically non verbal, isn't particularly mobile and has cardiac problems. The preschool are expected to manage without support. She's going to be at least six months late for her cardiac appointments. The cuts haven't even hit properly yet!!!!

Speech and Language therapy is going to be withdrawn from my boys, funnily enough social and communication disorder is their very disability but meh.... doesn't matter.

My kids don't even have a level playing field to start from. Used to be that we got support via the NHS and education to try and level it as best we could, to give them the best possible start in life that we could in order that hopefully one day they could live independently and hopefully free of the welfare system. Without the support that isn't going to happen, they could potentially be destined for a life on a (non existent) welfare state.

How is that remotely fair? How does that make us all in it together?"

"Interesting though, not one person has come up with why these proposals are fair. Not one person has answered my points or justified them. Why is this, is it because they cannot be justified?

People are just standing by and letting it happen. People like the posters on MN who refuse to acknowledge how the sick and the disabled and their carers in this country are going to be sent to the wall. Apologies if we are an inconvenience to you.

And for all those with their fingers in their ears going "lalala can't hear you" and for all those with their hands over their eyes saying "I can't see you" you'd better pray that you aren't incapacitated tomorrow. Hit by a bus, heart attack, stroke, cancer.... the reason why you become sick or disabled doesn't matter, there will be NOTHING left for you if this Government gets its way. For this reason alone those not currently sick and disabled must also fight.

Starting to realise why I marched yesterday? It may be futile, policy may not change but I have BEEN THERE making my feelings known."

1. Life isn't fair. It never has been and never will. It's not fair you have disabled children. It's not fair I don't. It's not fair some people are depressed however good their life is and not fair some get ill.

1. The money simply isn't there. The high paid have been hit by massive tax rises, the biggest for a generatin and that was done first. It is only now coffers are bear that cuts have to be made lower down. We may be in it together but those earning more have borne much more of the pain, much much more.

1. Had Labour not made such a total mess none of this would have happened. We had some good years. Unlike a prudent parent with a family budget Labour did not choose to save for the rainy day. Now the rain is here and cuts must be made but don't blame the current administration.

I read the FT not the daily mail as suggested above but I have never said it's not much fun on benefits but even so we have a system where able bodied can find they are better off not working. No Government has managed to avoid that and I doubt this one will manage it and is not radical enough to do what would be needed to remove the incentives.

Xenia, you said that "I'd make not working less fun" and given that you're hardly backwards in telling everyone how much you earn, generations of private schools in your family etc etc, I was simply asking how gain your knowledge about the lifestyles of people who are, for whatever reason, umemployed or not working.

If you don't read the Daily Mail, you certainly sound as though you do.

if the money isn't there how come they have it for free schools?

Xenia - I think your post is absolutely spot on.

Can we just say it again so people can hear. There is not enough money. There is not enough money.

Xenia is quite correct about the better off having been already hit.

They have lost tax credits and will lose child benefit. Those earning over 100K will not benefit from the increased tax threshold. They will be paying much if not most of their tax at 40 or 50%.

All this is what happens in a civilised society but it is the well off that enable the poor in this country to have the money to live as they do, no matter how unpalatable you may find that.

Yes and academy schools (£200K extra a year my school was quoted), missiles for the war in Libya, trident, the list goes on.

Xenia - since it is ok for people to constantly repeat that it is all labour's fault, here is a repetition of my post elsewhere:

"Sounds as though you think the deficit is labour's fault even though George Osborne (when pressed) and Mervyn King agree it was the fault of the bankers. The George Osborne one is specially good to watch - giving evidence to the treasury select committee, clip available on youtube here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK-h4aiuGIs

"Remember it was far right Bush that was in power in the US when the financial crisis hit.

"If labour hadn't been in power for 13 years we wouldn't have public services to pull the plug on to bail out the banks. Has anyone noticed that their schools / hospitals / public services have got better over the last decade?"

It is just not true that the financial crisis is labour's fault and I have no doubt it would have been worse if the tories has been in power at the time. Yes, the tories would have spent less; they'd have let corporations keep their profits instead of paying their share.

Yes the high paid (who can afford it) are now paying more tax - thanks to Gordon Brown's changes before the general election. Whether the tories would have implemented them is doubtful but they know they would not survive the political fallout of reversing them - yet.

No life isn't fair. I want to live in a country where the state redresses the balance in the way that Labour governments, not one where the lucky are free of tax and regulation and can grab what they like and the unlucky sit beneath trying to catch the drips.

Roll on a "NO" to AV combined with a hammering of the lib dems in the council elections. As the most democratic of the three main parties it doesn't take much for a leadership election and I have no doubt Clegg's successor will not allow these extreme right wing policies through - there will have to be either some dilution of the punishing cuts and a rescue of the nhs or a general election.

the 'better off' can still afford private schools - and from the threads on here the demand for them is growing - something doesn't add up

Jogon, actually it's "the poor" of this planet that enable the well off to live as well as we do.

It's "the poor" who work in factories to produce our consumer goods, pick the beans for our coffee, work in the shops serving them, collect the rubbish we chuck etc etc.

I really don't think "the poor" have too much to thank the well off for, tbh.

Jogon - people here aren't stupid. The 50% tax band starts at £150,000. It is above the HRT for NI so the marginal rate is 51%. Marginal rate at £100,000 is briefly high due to the personal allowance being lost then goes to 41%. Under that as we all know it 32%.

Someone on £20k pays 21% of their income in tax+NI.

On £40k they pay 26%
On £60k 30%
80k 33%
100k 35%
150k 38%
200k 42%

Stop complaining and pay your share.

It is the poor in this country - doing the jobs you don't want to do for yourself - that enable you to live as you do.

Paul

And there would be 'enough money' if the banking and finance sectors were properly regulated, corporation tax was robustly collected, wealth was more evenly distributed and Trident was halted.

Without the taxes of the better off there's be no benefits.
But I agree , everyone has a role to play and everyone is an important cog.
Which is why choosing not to work and living off everyone else is so fundamentally wrong.

Many of the better off afford private education through enormous sacrifice, both parents working and grandparental help.

spot on rosebud, nice to meet you :)

Rosebud - it's not the early 20thC with 'the poor' working in factories.

As a higher rate tax payer who has NEVER used either state education, the NHS, tax credits, housing benefit etc etc I feel totally abused and resent the money I pay.

If there was a fair flat tax rate I would not. I would also then stop my 'tax avoidance' of 7 year inheritance tax loopholds, offshore accounts etc etc

How would you redistribute wealth, Rosebud?

Paul. I'm not moaning, I agree 100% with fair taxation.

Jogon and Xenia have been right throughout. It;s very, very wrong to me - almost child abuse - that I know MANY couples who are happy to go on holiday regularly, buy new cars etc yet not put their DCs into private education, whereas I make all possible sacrifices to make sure mine do/will.

I think I should get a tax break for that seeing as I take a huge burden off the (obscenely large, bloated, coercive) state

dear lord

FAIR TAX = FLAT TAX

Um. who does work in the factories then? Do you? (I know there are no mines any more but there are some other places of manual labour.)

Let's hope you and your family never get ill, lose their jobs, etc.

happiestblonde - should there be a personal allowance? Or should this flat rate start with the first £1 earned?

When I say this i do not mean banks that took tax payer funded bailouts:

Picking on bankers, for being successful, is disgusting envy politics. Just imagine another profession was picked: 'RECRUITMENT CONSULTANTS GET DISGUSTING BONUSES (true, used to do it) SO THE GOV HAS A 'RIGHT' TO TKAE A PERCENTAGE OF THAT'. How would people take that?

Whatever viable, perhaps £10k, not sure.

it isn't envy is blantantly criminal