TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

[OrangeBernard]

Who's going? I've just booked my train tickets. Its my first protest, any advice or tips? Bit worried about kettling.

I am not selfish, if I was I'd be whining about cuts too. Nice to see that if someone disagrees with you they must be foaming at the mouth - says a lot really.

I am well aware of how many people were on the march, I am well aware of what happened last time there was a protest. Surprise surprise it happened again. So each time one of these marches is arranged we should just shake our heads at the naughty ones and ignore the responsibility of the crowd?

I'm glad you are happy to pay tons of tax. I've lived in countries where tax is half earnings and people were content with the situation. Nearly half of the council tax bill is spent not on services but on paying the pensions so generously given. How much could be saved if the highest paid council workers (and don't suddenly bang on about dinner ladies you know exactly who I refer to) took wage cuts? Does any council leader deserve a wage of £200,000 or more?

Chose your fights wisely and be grown up to realise not everyone will nod along like the Churchill dog.

Coalition if your idea of being "nice" is sitting on fence as you seem to then I'd rather come over as a bolshy lefty. And LFN's rhetoric's quite good. Just a shame she uses it to convey rightwing, loopy balderdash. I don't even really wanto convince those who agree with the cuts such as the likes of moondog. It's to put another side that gets sidelined and censored in the mainstream press.

Twoifbysea brainless thugs are those instigating these savage cuts. Their assault on us is quite breathtaking. You really surprised some get arsey over this? I'm surprised more don't. The poll tax was abolished by "temper tantrums" dontcha know.

Sorry Coalition if that isn't "nice" enough for you.

well, erm, actually, i wouldn't be looking for tax loopholes and i am not a liar.

I didn't have a riot yesterday and did not see anyone rioting. That happened well after most of the unions and marchers were already in the park being civilized.

And, since you ask, yes I did feel proud, incredibally proud, to walk alongside the brave firebrigades, the fantastic nurses, our skilled doctors, solicitors, teachers, social workers, prison staff, benefits and housing advisers, community group workers, volunteers, library staff and so on. All those people, from 0 to 70+ years old were marching because the cuts are too severe and too quick. Because they can see there are alternatives to what is happening now and want an alternative that doesn't hurt people so badly and doesn't hurt peoples grandchildren either. They took their saturday off and travelled hundreds of miles, because they care about the services in which they work. They care about the kids they teach, the sick that they care for, the people who they rescue and save etc etc etc.

Those 200 involved people were arrested and the TUC has passed comment on them. They weren't the teachers, nurses or midwives.

The cuts will effect me personnaly too, but more importantly my children and their futures, other families around me, the country, my community now and the hospitals and schools and police etc. There is another way to make cuts, there is a way to do it more slowly and over a longer period of time where there would also be more room for growth.

How is this voucher system supposed to help a disabled person employ a carer to help for days out if necessary? Are people to accept vouchers in payment for that?

How is the voucher system supposed to help pay for additional therapies, are private physiotherapists/osteopaths supposed to now accept vouchers for their services when the disabled have had to engage private treatment as there is none available on the nhs?

How is the voucher system supposed to cover the cost of transport to a vital hospital appointment for a disabled person? Are they to be available for petrol/public transport and would the amounts differ on request cos one week you'd need more transport other weeks more therapies?

Just SOME things that DLA covers, and DLA is going by the way. They are screwing over the disabled and their carers left, right and centre.

Seems to me the people on here most likely to push vouchers are the least likely to have ever needed to use the wefare state. FWIW London tenants are not invariably blowing HB money on the gee gees, many of them receive comparatively modest payments topping up their contribution to rent, as they work for low wages mopping floors and supervising school dinners or whatever, and these payments are paid directly to them and in turn to the landlord concerned.

You could make the argument that if it was less profitable for companies and individuals to flip properties and land in order to make a profit, even avoiding stamp duty a lot of the time in doing so, then property prices might be cheaper and less HB would be required. In Germany, for example, you ahve to hang on to property for seven years to avoid additional taxation, which means there is more of an incentive to provide affordable, good quality housing in the private sector.

Why oh why do some intelligent people only see the bits of the argument that they want to see? It's all significantly more complex than is made out on this thread.

Thank you all who marched. I was the one handing out stickers to grumpy children just as you got to Trafalgar Square by the way. Standing next to me was Alan Rickman

The march kicked off around 12:00 and the tail passed the starting point nearly 4 hours later. Based on that the 250000 quoted was an understatement. I would put it closer to Half a million to 700000.

I met many of the "bloated" public sector on the march. There were teachers as far as the eye could see, legal aid lawyers, nurses, NHS staff, librarians, care home workers, nursery nurses, fire, ambulance and off duty police. The journalist, physiotherapists and even the actors were out in force. There were social workers, youth workers, university and college lecturers, dinner ladies and opticians.

Lots of the marchers had recently been made redundant, were facing redundancy or having to cope with a massively increased workload as a result of workplace redundancies.

I just hope those crowing at the cuts bear this in mind when trying to get an ambulance, medical help, education for their children or need help from the justice system.

Let's just take a minute to think about HB and who actually benefits.

Who sets the rents? It's not the tenants, they just want a roof over their heads. The taxpayer is funding the pensions of all the buy to let landlords out there.

Now, think about why people working full time still need to claim HB in order to afford a roof over their head. The taxpayer is propping up the profits of some of the largest corporations in the country, by subsidising the poverty wages they pay their employees.

And, for the record, please don't think everyone on HB is living in some fabulous 4 bedded palace. Far too many are shitholes.

Hear, hear wubblybubbly...same with tax credits which are allowing employers to pay ridiculously low wages.
Was on the march , though sadly didn't see Alan Rickman.

Thank goodness their gravy train might be going to be curbed. we need a much smaller public sector and get Britain properly working again. I haven't advocated vochures except above to point out those areas where they are in effect already.

Plenty of private landlords won't take people on benefits at all for all kinds of good reasons.

Most people in the UK are content with the cuts despite the march. Only 7% want no cuts and more than that want even tougher cuts than we have.

However it's important people have the right to march.

Xenia, you can cite any poll or survey you like. The fact remains that when the people of this country cast their democratic vote, they voted against these cuts.

The coalition have no bloody mandate to push this through. Even less with the dismantling of the NHS.

Wubbly - you have hit upon the flaw in redistributive socialism. It can negate employers from paying employees responsibly, and it reduces the incentive for empoyees to negotiate a wage which reflects their true contribution (especially in times of full employment - when they have stronger bargaining power).

FFS - both the coalition AND labour would make cuts. Cuts will happen - there is no money - is has to happen.

< not biting >

@Jaquelinehyde - vouchers ridiculous and costly - really - based on what?

@Xenia - make not working less fun. Totally agree. When I was out of work, I automatically got myself a new, full-time job - it was called "finding a new job". 40 hours a week, slogging it round agencies.

Again, incentivise those who are not in work who are able to work by making not having a job the most boring, uninspiring, hated thing ever.

Save police jobs, get more speed cameras!

Yes we could perhaps make not having a job worse.

The nation voted for cuts,. If they voted Labour they voted for 20% cuts, if tory 25%. I can't see how we could say none of us voted for cuts. The money isn't there. It was mostly squandered by labour living beyond its means, a totally separate issue than the recession. They left a terrible legacy but let's hope in 5 years' time we get a really big Tory majority and then 5 and then 10 more years. We are in better hands now, lucky us.

oh come on you two. stop dilly dallying and say what you mean. you mean punish people for loosing their jobs dont you?

and by the way, not having a job and looking for work is already boring.

Xenia, you can't kid me. I watched those TV debates and it was quite clear, the lib dems and labour were dead against the tory plans. It was what the election was all about.

It's not about cuts or no cuts, as you well know. I wonder why you choose to deliberately misrepresent that?

But the march was all about "No cuts" - the difference between tories and labour was mainly speed of cuts. There were going to be cuts either way - because labour had gone bust - contrary to Brown's no return to boom and bust comments.

Nope Studying, it wasn't. See this link

Nowhere does it say that we should have no cuts.

Lots of banners said 'No cuts'. Not all of the people marching agree with Miliband about the necessity of 20% cuts as opposed to the Coalition's 25% cuts. Not everyone believes these cuts are necessary. Some think extra taxation, recouping money from the bankers and cost savings elesewhere could be made, even though Miliband doesn't believe that, and essentially believes in much of what the Tories are doing except doing it at a slower rate.

If Brown and Darling were still in power, the cuts would have looked very similar, and people would have marched against their cuts as well.

Well yes, you can't very well tell folk they can't march because you don't like their banner.

The point is, politicially there is an alternative and that's what the public voted for.

The policy of pretending that it's this or nothing is very effective though.

It's not just the principle of the governments' cuts I oppose, it's the absolute total stupidity of the policy and the effect it is having on our economy.

Miliband would like to believe that all the marchers would agree with his vision of cuts, but he is wrong. The marchers were right to demand an alternative and they came to show how strongly they felt. They came to make the government listen, not to back Miliband. Many know that what Miliband would do would be very similar.

The government can change its policies, just like it did over the forestry issue. Government does listen, and if the protests are large enough, then it often thinks again and implements changes.

Though in fairness, most of the shit that's happened since the coaltion moved into number 10 is actually down to the snow.