TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

[OrangeBernard]

Who's going? I've just booked my train tickets. Its my first protest, any advice or tips? Bit worried about kettling.

Therefore in a supposedly first world country it is acceptable to send the vulnerable to the wall, yes? Those who are unable to work as opposed to those that are unwilling?

right happiestblonde, I take it you have never used a leisure centre, library, had your bins emptied, had your streets cleaned, called an ambulance, been to your local park, visited A&E, visited your GP - I could go on....

The trick is sifting the unable from the unwilling, surely?

Shouldn't be THAT difficult!

HB - even I think you're being a plonker now!

State education = childabuse?

I'll tell my gifted kids that.

Tax avoidance isnt criminal
Tax evasion is

Philip Green etc are perfectly right to avoid tax LEGALLY - why the bloody hell should he pay for the public sector pensions when he LEGALLY can avoid doing so? I do not resent him for a second.

Everytime someone takes out an ISA, fills in a Gift Aid form, they are 'avoiding' tax.

I believe taxation to be theft anyway and totally resent paying towards this bloated public sector and over-bearing, coercive state that takes away my freedom and forces me to subsidise people's lives. I would happily support the old and sick but the state should be a basic safety net, not one that pays for people to live in houses in city centres, pays for having children (CB), pays JSA past a few weeks, gives money not food/energy vouchers as JSA etc.

GOod work Philip Green, Vodafone etc.

Unfortunately Jogon it appears to be too difficult as we are getting trapped in that category.

Tax avoidance IS criminal.
I have been a taxpayer. I am still via VAT and one day I will be again, but I will not shirk my responsibility to contribute. Why the hell should Green et al be allowed to?

pinkteddy - yes I have, therefore I think I should pay a flat tax rate which would be an equal amount of my income towards public services that I used an equal amount to everyone else in my area.

Does anyone have any stats about how many people are unwilling vs unable to work?

Tax avoidance is legal
Tax evasion is criminal.

morally criminal....

I beg your pardon happiestblonde did you actually just claim that sending your child to a state school was a form of child abuse?

Please tell me I misread that!

Yeah sorry jogon had a lot of wine and received my tax bill in one day.

I'm praying my DCs have DP's brain so get scholarships

Well said happiestblonde, its great to know that there are people like you about who would never take anything off of the state. Who needs things like roads, schools and hospitals. We'll all buy our own.

My profession is writing about ethics (academia). As a Nozickean, Spencierian libertarian working on Auberon Herbert I think there is nothing more morally abhorrent than taxation.

No, it certainly isn't envy.

It's anger that it was the private banking sector that pissed their profits up the wall and had to be bailed out by the government and the public sector that is suffering.

Suggesting that people fit into static categories like the well off vs the poor and the unable vs the unwilling is very simplistic and not particularly helpful.

Nice to meet you too Paul

Happiestblond, have you used university though, that was subsidised by the tax payer so you were lucky, apologies if I am wrong about this. Everybody used public services to a certain extent.

so is sitting on your arse when you could be working

Redbin - no, I said I want a flat tax - which would be fair as we would all pay a percentage of their income to something we all use, such as roads etc - rich people still pay more because they earn more, despite the fact they may not use state schools, hospitals etc

I'd prefer to live in a society in which people help and support each other, rather than employing a "pull up the rope Jack, I'm alright" attitude.

Why is tax avoidance morally criminal? As happiestblonde said, people do it with ISAs etc. If people could get gross interest on their bank accounts, they would. If people could avoid tax on a particular product, they would.

happiestblonde, sounds like a fascinating area of study. You will have to start a thread on it sometime. I would be interested in it. Just going to google Auberon Hubert.

Oh FFS the bail out was a small percentage of the year on year deficit + the national debt

STOP USING THE BANKS AS A SCAPEGOATE

Adams - yeah you have me there, my undergrad, masters and phd have been wildly subsidised and I cannot argue at all!

I think your perspective changes once you've had the rough end. I've paid in, I've taken out and I'll pay in again.

How lovely for you happiest

I would say people spending their lives being exploited on less than the minimum wage to afford to life in shit, private rented accommodation with reduced life expectancy etc etc so that we all enjoy clean streets, empty bins etc etc is considerably more abhorrent than taxation.