TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

[OrangeBernard]

Who's going? I've just booked my train tickets. Its my first protest, any advice or tips? Bit worried about kettling.

£65 a week?

Yes, if you are single and under 25 9 I think).

My cousins sister is a single parent on benefits. Lives in a detached 4 bed for nowt - better than my brothers house who works full time as does his wife.

She smokes, runs a four year old car and has an I phone. Her kids have every X box/playstaton etc under the sun. Not to mention free school meals, eye tests and a lap top which she flogged to a mate.

Her Ex pays a few hundred a month so it's not that funding the lifestyle.

She will happily espouse that she will never work as she wouldn't earn enough.

Those of you protesting yesterday who work long hours for ow pay should be protesting against a system that supports this, not cuts to it FGS!

Wubbly - I suspect that £25bn figure includes their estimate for corporation tax avoidance. But it's worth noting that compared to other countries, the UK corporation tax take is very high (as a proportion of GDP).

To some extent our high corporation total tax take is due to our favourable corporation tax laws which incentivise companies to invest and grow here. To close the loop-holes you need to remove these incentives.

Also - corporation tax provides less tax revenue than either income tax or NI. Countries try to attract companies in order to increase employment and generate income tax.

Any UK government is going to be reluctant to mess with business incentives.

"Can everyone remember that LFN is actually a revolutionary socialist, attempting to DISCREDIT the views she pretends to uphold by being as unpleasant as possible.

I'm suspicious that Glasnost might be doing something similar as well...."

coalition(definately doesn't)needsyou please don't align me to mad harpy LFN. I am a revolutionary socialist in fact whereas she is properly rightwing and, indeed, unpleasant. You, on the other hand, seem to have no discernible opinions whatsoever so you resort to dissing everyone else's. Your agenda is to bore us all off politics. At least LFN is entertaining.

Jogon is right that there are plenty of incentives not to work. No party has managed to solve that. Iain Duncan Smith's plan that people will keep to my mind a relatively small amount of what they start to earn if they take a job and come off benefits is notthing like a big enough incentive.

If you get your £20k rent in London paid (new maximum) plus benefits it's pretty hard if you're a minimum wage calibre of person (£13k a year) to make work pay or worth the effort even with tax credits and any other benefits for the lower paid.

@moondog - ref "Sit in a small room snivelling to a not very bright woman with large earrings and a Clarks shoes habit and voila!. All your problems will be magically rinsed away."

You clearly have a bad impression of counselling - great, if they provide no benefit - cut them - get rid. Easy. That's the point of cuts.

However, as @wubblybubbly pointed out, it's not all like that - there are good counsellors. And there are bad ones. Get rid of the bad ones - oh no, you can't because they're in the union and everyone's saying no cuts, even for the bad ones.

Counselling can and does help. And there needs to be training to keep and improve counsellors. It's complementary to medicines. But it it shouldn't be immune to appropriate cuts.

Abuelita

An interesting post with good impartial links. I recommend the FullFact link - it really cuts through the rhetoric from both political wings.

However, I think you have confused Monetary and Fiscal policy. Monetary policy, which you say the OECD report recommends, is mainly to do with interest rate changes. Fiscal policy is the one which includes spending during a recession.

@Jaquelinehyde - ref "internet access"

Not necessarily. I was just pointing out that information is out there and that it can be done. Leaflets with menus and recipes as part of the benefits package - maybe available at job centres, etc.

But then people will say that the Government are telling people what to eat - they can't win. People want independence to do what they want, when they want and how they want because they "deserve it" because they "exist". They don't want to be told what to do or how to do it, but they do want to be given the money to do what they want and how they want.

Jogon under 25's get £51 and over 25's get £65 and just because you know one person who is living the highlife on benefits does not mean that the majority are.

In my experience genuine advice is always welcomed but imposed ways of living are not.

Jogon. I know it can be anoying when people seem better off that you as they seem to get too much from the state but could you realy live in a country that did not look after the vulnerable when they need it.

Ideally we would have a society where people wanted to work and contribute and those who can't are looked after well by the state. I have always worked and paid crazy amounts for childcare and had all that stress and seen others much more relaxed and apparently as well off as me but not working so I do understand your view.

Exactly, some live the highlife and some don't. So, level it out - appropriate housing (i.e. no 4 beds for single old ladies), vouchers for food, bills, etc. so people can't buy iFondles, booze, fags, etc. with the money. Then everyone gets the same deal.

Glasnost - I just don't have the arrogance to pretend that I have the answers. I've not 'dissed' anyone's opinions - I just ask them to have rigour in how they express them. There are times when both you and LFN conduct yourselves in ways that seem to be expressly calculated to turn people against the views you are propounding. So you can see how I wonder what the true views of each of you might be.

@Jaquelinehyde "imposed ways of living are not."

That's the problem. People want to the state to give them money but don't want to be told how to spend it.

Well, maybe it's time that that changed. The state gives people money to spend on the necessities - so ensure that happens by giving people vouchers and advice on how to spend them to make the most from them.

Vouchers are a ridiculous idea unworkable that would cost more than they would save to administer.

CoalitionNeedsYou true views are the ones expressed and "conducting yourselves" is inappropriate term for internet forum where communication's restricted to written electronic word so no room for nuance, irony or real communication. As I type this am breastfeeding so how I express myself is conditioned by need for brevity. I'm far from unpleasant and never set out to offend anyone whereas you seem to pick holes in everyone's views. Makes me wonder what YOUR "true views" and motives might be. Ciao 4 now!

Glasnost - Well, if you really ARE trying to persuade those that agree with the cuts to agree with you instead, you might well start by being a bit nicer too them. Don't rise to LFN's rhetoric and attempts to polarise.

vouchers? so those people wouldn't be able to purchase goods from the newsagent, unless the newsagent took vouchers and could be bothered to apply for a refund from the gove? how would they catch a bus with a voucher to get to their job interview. how would their children buy a packet of sweeties as a weekly treat? how would you be able to pay for your mobile to arrange your job interview? which supermarkets would take vouchers...one of them, two of them? what if one were not local to you? what if you didnt like their food? what would happen to the supermarket giant compared to the small local shops?

riddiculous, riddiculous, ridiculous.

and what about the people who can never work. should they live their whole lives on vouchers with the bare minimum, for reasons they cannot control.

We have vouchers as you all know. Plenty of children get free school meals and prescriptions. That's a voucher system. Vouchers are already a core part of our system. Also I think housing benefit is paid direct to the landlord rather than the tenant spending their(London rates) £20k a year on betting.

if we tax alcohol and cigarettes and perhaps junk food even more than might ultimately help ensure people don't feed themselves and children junk food.

The US food vouchers systems works very well and has been extended ni the current climate. Supermarkets not wanting to eb associated with the scheme there are now signing up to it but I wouldn't bother with that in the UK we're quite a small country. I'd make not working less fun, many more visits to benefit offices and interviews and compulsory work fare and children to have to share 3 a room as plenty of us who work have to suffer.

so it's about having to suffer because you dont have a job or cannot ever work?

I'm off.

It really is like a jelousy thing/insecurity thing when people go on about how much people who are unemployed get, what state their houses are in etc, etc. How anyone in this free country can think its ok to tell another fellow human adult how to spend their money and what on, is beyond belief.

Is it because so many adults now were brought up under Maggie and the selfishness that government drummed into peoples heads? Is it greed or 'individualism'? Or, is it, I think, just a complete lack of empathy that people have these days. Would it really make those people happier if they saw poor people and the more vulnerable in society, suffering more outwardly?

I might get an I agree with Xenia tshirt.

So did you all enjoy your little riot yesterday? Enjoy looking like brainless thugs in the world's media?

As someone on a low wage who was on benefits for a couple of years after ex-dh walked out I seem to be prepared to weather the cuts despite the fact it will probably hurt my little family. We still have a roof over our heads and food in our bellies. I would rather my grandchildren (if any) don't have to be repaying the debt created by this generation. Come to think of it, people are responsible for creating debt mortgages on over-priced houses and credit cards. No one forced anyone to over-stretch themselves but now everyone suffers for the greedy few.

Labour encourages dependency on the state. That comes with a cost. The temper tantrum by the hooligans yesterday has cost how much? How much has been taken out the nothing left is going to be spent clearing up after the idiots? Well done, you all must be so proud of yourselves.

Plus, if you think that if you had millions you wouldn't be looking for tax loopholes then you are a liar.

TwolfbySea, half a million people were on the march and 200 were arrested. If the only thing you can extrapolate from that is that everyone looked like a brainless thus, I suggest that you wipe the foam from your mouth and look again at the news coverage, and police and TUC statements, all of which make it clear that it was an overwhelmingly peaceful day. Also, I am happy to pay tax and would be happy to pay more. I was disappointed that this year's council tax bill is the same as last years, because I know that this will contribute to local services having to be cut. Please do not transfer
your own selfishness to the rest of us.