Census

[woollyideas]

What do people think about the forthcoming census?

I've applied for a job with Capita and have my phone interview tomorrow. I was feeling quite pleased about this (being broke and in need of a few extra quid) but the more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to have doubts.

I was totally against ID cards and the proposed NHS patient summary care records - not to mention the retaining of data of people who had been arrested and not subsequently charged. I think I hadn't really given the census much thought until now, though - well, not outside the 'Who Do You Think You Are' context, ie. I'd only really considered its value as a fairly basic record of who lived where/types of occupation held, etc... I think, too, because the census has quite a long history it has become 'accepted'. But I've just had a look at some of the same questions and am beginning to think that some of them go beyond 'basic' and into intrusive and I'm getting cold feet about wanting to do this job (if I was offered the post after interview, of course.)

What do people think about the census? Useful or not? Intrusive or not? Is there any justification for it in this day and age considering the amount of information that is already held on people?

all the questions are intrusive so i just lie in fact everyone i knows lies tell the buggers nothing its non of their business

I have a bloke bugging me on the census. Why not just send me the chuffin forms...and I will see if it is worth writing about. "Gabby"

@thereiver... if you lie and if everyone you know does the same, don't complain if there aren't enough school places or there's some other gap in your public services in years to come. And, should your relatives decide to trace you in 100 years' time, if you've put 'occupation - whelk tamer' they'll just think you were a bit of a tosser....

Any other whelk tamers feeling completely inadequate now?

@thereiver... if you lie and if everyone you know does the same, don't complain if there aren't enough school places or there's some other gap in your public services in years to come.

Chil, that made me smile:) :) Call me Dave is going to fuck the public services, census or no census

Labour 'fucked' the public services by inflating the sector to unmanageable levels, borrowing to pay wages rather than to invest in the future and relying on the tax income from one sector (finance) far too heavily. The banks and other wealthy businesses that are attracting such hatred at the moment were the ones that financed the spending spree of the last 13 years. Didn't hear too many people complaining then that they weren't paying enough tax.... funny that....

What is the problem with telling the government your ethnicity or even sexuality?

Did you know the US arms dealer Lockheed Martin - makers of TRIDENT among other delights - is behind the census? wtf for would be a relevant question.

I don't see that my sexuality is any of the Government's business. Even equal ops forms are not mandatory.

How was your interview woollyideas?

Under the US Patriot Act rushed in after 9/11 any US company - Lockheed Martin is American - hasto hand over any data to the US gov and/or the CIA if requested.

Any freedom loving tories out there have an opinion on this? Cameron's gov gave the contract to these lot to carry out the census on behalf of the Office for National Statistics.

So what?

So what to what? To the fact an American arms manufacturer is behind it? Must be great to be so disingenuous and cynically apathetic. Gee, wish I could be like that.

Yes, so what? What are the consequences of this that worry you? Are they going to use SAMs on those who don't fill the forms out? Are their profits from arms dealing so low they would have to stop if they didn't get the money from the census?

Does it not strike you as AT ALL weird that a foreign arms dealing company has won the contract to organise the census? So we are all so densensitised to these bizarre goings on that it only raises an eyebrow among a few? There's a boycott of the census been organised on the back of this news.

And all this granted permission by the tories who made a big deal about new Labours' perceived big brother tendencies viz id cards.

I think that the contract was awarded sometime in 2008 and that, possibly, Lockheed were in charge of the 2001 census as well.
Does anyone know of anyone fined for not completing the last one? It would be a rotten old task, trying to bring all the people to court, would it not?

Anyone who uses any of their local council services (schools, refuse collection, adults services, playgrounds) should think very carefuly before boycotting the census.

Local government funding is based on data collected from the census. I believe that for every person who fails to complete the census, the respective local authority will lose £22,000 in funding over the next 10 years (I.e. Until the next census).

Lockheed Martin did all the data capturing/scanning etc for the 2001 census as well.

I don't see what there is to fuss about tbh.

Ok, so why can we not just have fewer questions? Surely some basic stuff would suffice? Why do they want to know where we work?

No it doesn't. There are civilian applications for technology developed in the defence industry. In this case the technology they are selling is their expertise in running large projects.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/19/census-boycott-lockheed-martin

"Concerns expressed about the possibility of the US Patriot Act being used by US
intelligence services have been addressed by a number of additional contractual and
operational safeguards. These arrangements have been put in place to ensure that US
authorities are unable to access census data.
All data processing will be carried out in UK ? no data will leave or be held at any
point outside the UK;
All data is the property of the ONS and only UK/EU owned companies will have any
access to personal census data.
The only people who have access to the full census dataset in the operational data
centre will be ONS staff.
No Lockheed Martin staff (from either the US parent or UK company) will have
access to any personal census data.
ONS will control system access rights to all data systems;
Existing law already prevents the disclosure of census data ? it is a criminal offence
to disclose personal census data and is punishable by a fine and/or up to two years
in prison.
All census employees and contractors working on the census sign a declaration of
confidentiality to guarantee their understanding and compliance with the law.
Independent checks by an accredited UK security consultancy of both physical and
electronic security are carried out for ONS.
"

If the UK Government wanted to give a US company the census data, I suspect that just giving it to them would be a lot easier than getting them to collect the data, pretend that they aren't getting access to it and then nicking it.

Tabitha - Why don't you wnat to tell them where you work? I can see how better data about the length of commutes etc. could be very useful. You already tell the tax authorities which company you work for.

Penny's just dropped! Could be a cunning plan to pay even less to local councils by purposefully drumming up conscientious objectors to Lockheed's involvement! Wow the gov's more on the ball than I'd thought.

Even better reason to fill it in erroneously then.

I dont think we need to get hysterical over lockheed- Google and microsoft can access far more interesting information about us if they wish! Good lord, even Mumsnet have access to more details about you than can be gleaned from the questionnaire!

I just completed my training for census.

Just a few nuggets of information:

You need to complete all questions except the religion one.

Failure to complete every question will result in you having to fill in a new form from scratch - the collectors will not know what question you missed, only that you missed something. In this case you will be back on the collectors list and asked to complete a new form.

(If you fill in the form online, you will not be able to submit it unless you have completed all the information.)

You are legally obliged to complete the form truthfully - it has a statement at the back that says you have completed to the best of your knowledge.

Failure to complete the form could result in a £1000 fine and could also lead to a custodial sentence!!!

Prosecutions will happen - according to our trainer, people who dont do their forms are "low hanging fruit" for the CPS to make up their quotas.

Refusals will be recorded by the collectors - and will result in a different person coming back to discuss your refusal and the possible consequences. Details of your refusal will be recorded and may form part of the evidence against you if you end up in court.

If you have more than 6 people in your household, dont bother with the paper form, do it online.

on a seperate note, for the paranoid housewives of eg Pinner and Wimbledon, why would a multinational arms dealer care if you have central heating and two cars? You must have a very inflated opinion of yourself if you think the minutae of your life, your marital status, your date of birth and the number of bedrooms in your property have implications for national security!