Census

[woollyideas]

What do people think about the forthcoming census?

I've applied for a job with Capita and have my phone interview tomorrow. I was feeling quite pleased about this (being broke and in need of a few extra quid) but the more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to have doubts.

I was totally against ID cards and the proposed NHS patient summary care records - not to mention the retaining of data of people who had been arrested and not subsequently charged. I think I hadn't really given the census much thought until now, though - well, not outside the 'Who Do You Think You Are' context, ie. I'd only really considered its value as a fairly basic record of who lived where/types of occupation held, etc... I think, too, because the census has quite a long history it has become 'accepted'. But I've just had a look at some of the same questions and am beginning to think that some of them go beyond 'basic' and into intrusive and I'm getting cold feet about wanting to do this job (if I was offered the post after interview, of course.)

What do people think about the census? Useful or not? Intrusive or not? Is there any justification for it in this day and age considering the amount of information that is already held on people?

Useful, yes because it helps government plan ahead for things like public services. I don't personally think the information requested is intrusive . No more so than the electoral roll, for example. And whilst the information probably could be gathered together from other sources, I think that a one in 10 year snapshot completed by ourselves, is more likely to be accurate.

I don't put in the same class as ID cards because we will not be asked for our census information by a policeman on the street, for example - it's confidential. And I don't equate it to the DNA database because my census information doesn't assume I'm a potential criminal

I'd take the job if I were you. Interesting and public-spirited at the same time :)

Do you have to answer all the questions? If any? Can you leave blank any you don't want to answer?

Sorry, not helpful, but this will be my first census and it seems...wierd, esp some of the more intrusive questions.

Which questions do you think are intrusive?

You dont have to answer the religion one as far as i am aware.

Think the rest are compulsory.

You can be fined up to £1000 for not filling it in.

. What questions will I have to answer?

We ask about work, health, national identity, citizenship, ethnic background, education, second homes, language, religion, marital status and so on. People in Wales will have an extra question about the Welsh language.

All these things are important in capturing a true snapshot of the population as it stands on census day.

You must answer all the questions. Only the religion question is voluntary.

compulsory religion in norn iron

Wasn't there a sexuality one? That may have come from an unreliable paper though

What on earth do they ask about citizenship?

I think there's a question about people who may be visiting you at the time, which is the one I found strange (and possibly intrusive) and one about your employer (as opposed to occupation).

I don't have a list of questions from the actual source - I'm only going on what I've found on the internet. What made me reconsider this is that Big Brother Watch and Say No to ID (both campaign groups that I've supported in the past) are so vehemently anti...

TBH I'm also worried that if I'm knocking on doors to collect census forms there might be a certain amount of confrontation if it's something people don't support.

Stretch - from what I've read there's no question about sexuality as such, but there's a box you can tick if you're in a civil partnership, for example.

I think the census is a great idea. It gives a snapshot into the country at a certain point in time and as chil says useful for public services planning.

Other sources like the electoral roll aren't good enough as a significant minority don't register (they think paying council tax is the same). It also doesn't cover the whole (ie non voting) population.

Its worth looking into the reasons why the census was introduced in the first place.

Hi Iggly,

I can understand why the census was introduced in the first place, but now that so many records are held in so many different places I wonder if there isn't less of an argument for it nowadays. I think that's what I meant when I said its long history has made it acceptable. I wonder if it was introduced for the first time ever this year whether we'd be so accepting of the reasons given for collecting the data?

I do have a nagging little worry, too, about how secure the data will be given the loss of huge amounts of centrally held electronic data in the recent past.

Responses on here seem to indicate that people don't really mind the idea of a census (a small sample of the population I know!) which has allayed some of my fears about possible confrontation if I do get offered/accept the job.

All the substitute databases proposed simply don't cover everybody as well as the Census does (or nearly does). The best single subst. database would be the NHS patient registrar -- but that can easily be out of date or contain duplicates, and it doesn't cover many things the Census notes, like quality of housing. Integrating the many candidate sub databases, cross matching and referencing would be a nightmare. And the various sub databases all put together simply don't ask all the right questions; Eg., how many people are doing a huge amount of care work for elderly relatives but are not claiming DLA or Carer's allowance? The Census captures that sort of info.

We need one dataset that measures the data in a consistent way all at one snapshot moment. No other dataset does that half as well. The others are often out of date or easily miss a lot of the population (eg, ~2.5m households are unbanked, people who don't drive won't be on the DVLA, people who don't work or who work in the underground economy get overlooked by tax records, etc.). Foreigners get left out of lots of databases, even those with ILtR.

The question about visitors on 27 March gives an idea of how many people might get missed from the Census.

Sorry for waffling... I used to work A LOT with Census data professionally, and with patient registrars. I don't see how any other sets of data could realistically replace the Census.

The government data losses have been because people have tried to move data around ie share it on insecure media like CDs, memory sticks etc. That has been clamped down on. I don't worry about it really because I give more sensitive data to private companies and they quite happily sell it despite me ticking the "no" box!

If you're worried about confrontation, you could ask about this in your interview?

So none of you would bash me up on the doorstep?

Can I just warn you that if your application process is anything like mine you may not find out for a while. Although as some census collector jobs are starting 21st March you may be more lucky.

I applied, had telephone interview on 17th December (lasted about 5 minutes) and was told I would hear "within 2 to 3 weeks". I get fairly regular updates from them telling me they are still assessing but still haven't been told anything. So 2 to 3 weeks has turned into 10 so far.

You may have a better time of course and I hope you do .

Thanks, Lois. That's not very good, is it? I only began the application process about 5-6 days ago, so things have moved quite fast up to this point. My understanding is that the work would be done April-May, so they can't take too long making up their minds hopefully!

They keep extending the deadlines - they were January and keep getting later. I presume I haven't stood out as being amazing, but who can tell what will happen.

I think there are also people dropping out and they will need replacing.

Hello Census people, I had my telephone interview last week, I've had some of the same fears but I'm looking upon it as a months work at a decentish rate which will make me money as DH is up for redundancy again. I was a bit disappointed by the telephone interview, I was all set for hard questions but they only really wanted to know if I'd be around to do the job!

Cansus can now be added to the DM hate list (scroungers, welfare in general and the BBC). If you look here it seems that the questions asked don't change that much from decade to decade. Continuity from one to the next is important.

Sorry for the tangent. I would be interested in doing this myself but now can't get around........

Good luck woollyideas.

Really, Poppy? If the DM hates it, that's probably good enough for me!

I did the phone interview last week too! I'm being made redundant at the end of May, so a bit of extra cash would be very helpful...

There is a boycott of the Census going on because of links to American arms manufacturer, Lockheed Martin. There are fears that the data collected could be passed on to the American Government. I don't think I've the courage to boycott it myself because I can't afford the 1,000 quid fine. Hats off to those who prepared to, though. www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/19/census-boycott-lockheed-martin

Thanks Cate. Why on earth has the contract gone to an American arms manufacturer? That's bizarre (and morally wrong, surely?)

I don't fill it in, certainly would not fill in the ethnicity question. My freind who is black always fills it in 'blonde blue eyed'.

Woolyideas what if you turn up on a doorstep, and they won't fill it in? (my doorstep) what are you going to do?

They wont deliver in person to your doorstep complimentary - it will be posted or you can fill it in online. You can be fined if you don't complete it.

I start on 7th March - community establishments as they don't receive theirs in the post. Anyone else starting then?

There has always been a question about people visiting, I remember having to fill my German penpal on it. It just notes a name and age, and maybe nationality. It just gives a snapshot of people on one day, might be very useful for tourism statistics.