Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Politics
Original poster

Big Society- How is it going to work?

252 replies

seekinginspiration · 13/02/2011 13:25

I'm really confused. I do a bit of volunteering (two hours a week - but only when it fits in with other demands). I have to put paid work and family first so I need to earn some money. I think most mums and even some grannies are in this situation. How is it going to work?

OP posts:
QueenBathsheba · 15/02/2011 10:23

ScramVonChubby, it makes you want to hop on the next plane out doesn't it. If I could leave this country I would.

For now though, I will sit here and refuse to play ball with Dave's Big Society if it means an end to all social mobility and a return to victorian values.

Forced labour for the poor in the form of conscripted volunteering, is no different to the work houses of the 18th and 19th century.

Your poor father, it isn't right that in a civilised society the ill, disabled and old should have to work for peanuts just to justify their exsistance.

carminaburana · 15/02/2011 10:48

Expat; some people would argue Tony Blair was a Thatcherite - he certainly wasn't a socialist.

Getting the voluntary sector to do a job for half the money ( and some councils are notorious for wasting money ) is an exercise in common sense and efficiency. No one will be knocking on your door expecting you do run the night shift at your local drug dependency unit - that's not how it will work - it's merely shifting power from central government to volunteers.

The concept of the Big Society is brilliant ( and we all ready have 1000's of volunteers ) - it's just whether it will work or not.

And what isn't your fault or your problem?

( and CRB checks are out of date as soon as they're printed - so a waste of time in many cases )

georgeorwell · 15/02/2011 11:22

rabbitstew when did blair ever pretend to be a socialist? his arrival as leader spurred me to rip up my labour membership card (after years of being tempted to anyway by kinnock) and join the (REAL) socialist party.

his regime was a continuation of thatcherism as is miliband's. dont believe their feigned opposition to the condems. THEY are all in it together in this mammoth swindle and privatisation of our very existences.

QueenBathsheba soory but don't think that by emigrating you'll wind up in some warm n cuddly utopia. there aren't any on this planet. this iniquitous system is taking a stranglehold courtesy of the US of A. i live in italy which is still worse than UK but is a corrupt state with the only social justice left to the church to mete out as and when they deign fit. lets see how the 2 compare in a coupla years down the line and the creation of the Big Society. (i'm sure i coined that term in 1984!)

expatinscotland · 15/02/2011 12:22

'Expat; some people would argue Tony Blair was a Thatcherite - he certainly wasn't a socialist.'

Did he ever pretend to be?

Because really, that's neither here nor there at this point seeing as that he's gone.

BS, it's an exercise in efficiency. It's a con to disguise spending cuts, and without a corresponding cut in taxes.

Small state + heavy taxation = con job.

QueenBathsheba · 15/02/2011 14:31

Georgeorwell, you'll be glad to note I am just reading Down and Out in Paris and London.

So yes poverty and corruption transcends boarders.

Interesting point about Orwel, his real name was Blair!

Tony Blair wasn't socialist and even if he had of been, how can you make socilist ideology work along side free market economics.

poppyknot · 15/02/2011 14:35

Ask a minister what he does....

muminlondon · 15/02/2011 16:09

Great clip, says it all - Who said that the Church of England is the Tory party at prayer?

Tory MPs see themselves as selfless civic-minded citizens with a religious and reforming zeal, motivated for the public good.

We see them as patronising, power-crazed hypocritical windbags out to defend the privileges and power of the elite with which they went to school.

muminlondon · 15/02/2011 16:24

David Cameron is playing the guilt card like a CofE vicar to disguise turning the state sector into a ruthless profit-making opportunity. So in debates like this anyone attacking his ideas sound like they don't appreciate the volunteering efforts which already go on.

imright · 15/02/2011 17:00

Muminlondon. Tory MPs as 'windbags' surely you are thinking of Harriet Harman? (Jackboot) Jackie Smith? Tony Blair, Gordon (windbag) Brown, another old windbag ('no more boom or bust "unless I cause it! Oh yes my party caused Britain's bankruptcy, I couldn't care less I'm out off it, having a wee dram, here in Kirkcaldy. ) Or are you thinking of the two atheists Clegg and Miliband? Both Hypocrites and windbags. In Miliband's case he's a tax evader, apparently on here a MN crime!

No if you are thinking of windbags, think closer to your political home, the Labour Party.

Or are you thinkiing of the two Welsh windbags, Neil and Glennis Kinnock? Both on the MEPs gravy train for years!

Don't let me puff myself up with wind from
indignation!!!

Grin Grin

Batteryhuman · 15/02/2011 17:05

The Big Society is the privatisation of public services without a mandate. It has little to do with volunteering as illustrated by the fact that amongt the first victims of the cuts are the charities that provide the essential support to said volunteers eg Homestart and CAB

expatinscotland · 15/02/2011 17:05

Why do people always assert that anyone who doesn't support ConDem policies is a Labour supporter?

claig · 15/02/2011 17:15

very good summary of some of our leading political figures by imright

muminlondon · 15/02/2011 17:18

I haven't voted Labour for two elections. But thanks for reminding me what my choice is.

carminaburana · 15/02/2011 17:18

Muminlondon: historically - the overwhelming majority of voluntary organisations have been Christian -

muminlondon · 15/02/2011 17:20

I don't disagree that they are all windbags either. Some lie more than others.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 15/02/2011 17:27

In answer to OPs question, I don't think the Big Society will work. It will go the way of John Majors "Back To Basics" campaign....

Exactly WHO will be these volunteers.... these days where I live you can't get anyone to run a cub or brownie pack, help on a school trip, because they are too busy working or are looking after children or parents they can't leave!

muminlondon · 15/02/2011 17:29

carminaburana, I don't disagree with that either. But (1) just going to church and helping out with the coffee mornings or the flowers is not the same as charitable work (i was reacting to the Francis Maude interview) and (2) some of the most selfless and charitable people I know have been atheists or agnostics who don't go to church.

claig · 15/02/2011 17:30

'Big Society - how is it going to work?'

Big stick?

rabbitstew · 15/02/2011 17:38

imright - what have Labour Party politicians got to do with a discussion on how the Big Society will work?

complimentary · 15/02/2011 17:55

Rabbitstew. I think the reply was to do with 'windbags'. Plenty in all of the parties IMO. The Labour party never believed it the Big Society, only the Big Brother Society!

muminlondon · 15/02/2011 18:16

The last government did actually subcontract some local government services to regeneration and youth work groups. charities, housing associations etc., because of their expertise and new ideas. So the Big Society.idea is not 'wrong', and certainly nit new. Doing more with the funds available is a good idea.

But substituting essential services with free or underpaid labour in a patchy and undemocratic or unaccountable way is wrong.

BeenBeta · 15/02/2011 18:42

Yes they did subcontract public sector work to charities and in reality what happened was a charity effectively became subsumed into the public sector delivering one massive Govt contract. Meanwhile the charity continued collecting donations from the public to cover its overheads.

In effect public donations just got swallowed in delivering the public sector contract. One such charity came doing a fund raiser at DSs school and they never explained exactly where the money was going. I only found out by looking at the charity accounts and was horrified that the donations were effectively being diverted to Govt spending.

BeenBeta · 15/02/2011 18:43

In effect Tory Big Society = Labour Third Way

jackstarb · 15/02/2011 19:00

"But substituting essential services with free or underpaid labour in a patchy and undemocratic or unaccountable way is wrong"

Muminlondon - do you know for sure that this is planned? Do you have links?

muminlondon · 15/02/2011 19:11

Well, the cuts are real, up to 40% in some areas, library closures are real, Surestart centre closures are real and it all coincides with this supposed vision of the big society.

TBH I don't think the Chope/Bone/Hollobone private members' bills are central to David Cameron's visiion but he is still trying to appeae the right wing as well as the Lib Dems.