Want your children to be able to go to uni?

[GreatAuntLoretta]

I am really feeling the urge to join the NUS protest against tuition fees on Thursday 9th December. Although my children are both under five, I am really really upset and annoyed to think that if they want to go to university in the future we will be very unlikely to be able to afford to send them. Who knows what the fees will be by then?! Also when my children are a little older I would really like to have the opportunity to retrain and do a degree. That would be completely off the cards. (angry)

Is anyone else with young children thinking of attending? It would be good to stick together with some other parents. A large group of parents will probably be a lot safer than a random woman with a buggy and a toddler in a mass crowd.

Who is with me?

Is there already a family protest group out there?

Oh. Just heard that the students have been occupying your office - so I see why you said that they would not make you change your mind by doing that. I apologise for what I have just posted.

But, when this all dies down, please do think again - about the hundreds of students who didn't occupy your office, and who are trying to protest in a law-abiding way. Please take their views into account.

These students won't be affected by your cuts but they are standing up for what they believe. So they have been a bit OTT today, well you need to punish them by voting for this policy to spite the students coming up after them. That not very mature is it.

So students should be expected to pay for their education themselves as they get the benefit of a higher salary?

If that's the case they should pay less tax than everyone else. Why should graduates contribute more/higher taxes into the public purse when they had to fund the education which got them there in the first place.

A 9% tax rebate for up to 25 years should be just about right.

To John Hemming again. I think the students have done excellent job of raising awareness to all your constituents that signed pledge on tuition fees so keeping a close eye on how you vote on Thursday.

'that you signed the pledge'.

Patsy99 good point! What are taxes for, if not education? (But I think the govt should raise taxes, on a sliding scale. Surely that's the fairest way, without artificial cut-off points).

I agree that a general tax rise should be looked at, rather than all these terrible cuts. Preferably a fair tax rise. Cannot believe I am thinking this.

You do realise that even the NUS (and Labour) are not talking about a rise in general taxation to pay for student tuition. See the NUS Funding Blueprint. Under this scheme graduates will pay extra tax to meet the cost of their tuition.

Personally a fixed debt is more appealing then an open ended tax!

I would like my children to go to uni if they are suitably qualified, but we will never be able to afford these tuition fees. I can't get to London on the 9th to protest, but I could get to Newcastle if anything was happening there. Does anyone know of anything? I have also emailed every liberal MP to ask them to vote against it. There is also a standard letter on the NUS web site which you can send to your MP. Ladies, please protest. If you don't your children will be saddled with huge debts especially if they go to university to study an arts subject - such degrees simply do not command significant salaries. I know. I have one!

Thank you Ladychocolate and Jackstarbright. I've sent the letter to my MP, although I'm not sure I really agree with the NUS proposals (I'd far rather people who can afford it paid more tax!). However, the NUS are the ones who know what's best for them, and I do want to support them in any way possible.

Their website is impressive, and it's great that they have been constructive enough to put forward their own proposals. I just hope that they are properly considered by the government, when the Coalition is defeated on Thursday. It'll be back to the drawing board for them, and they'll need some new ideas. I live in hope.

We can only live in hope this coalition will be defeated on Thursday.

I am in contact with my MP who has said he will vote against. I cannot make it to London but would have marched if I'd been able to.

A rise in income tax would put more money into the pot and along with fair and reasonable cuts could help pay off the deficit.

The fight against cutting EMA is definitely not over - day of action called by a number of unions on monday 13th december
website is:
emacampaign.org.uk/

also for ladychocolate newcastle action can be seen on
www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=170088963021619
although the page seems to be down at the moment - if you put day x newcastle into facebook you should be able to find it

also
"Gather from 4.30pm outside Civic Centre, rally at 5pm - called by Sunday's student general assembly and also backed by Unison, Coalition of Resistance and Public Services Alliance" from another page - so lots going on!

I think we should have a national learn-in.

At the appointed hour, occupy every library, every community centre, every school, every college, every university, every single place where learning is supposed to take place, and refuse to budge until a more realistic plan has been developed than FINING people for LEARNING. For that is what this is.

Boffinmum, yes thats exactly what this is - a punishment for daring to better yourself, get an education and enable you to contribute more to society. They should know their place and get back down the mines or polish some upper class toffs shoes, no doubt.

I think we should all get a stick and hit our MPs with it until they learn!

Honestly this is becoming another Iraq, and this government is not even 8 months in! When will they learn to listen?? -that is the problem!

Crimbo- their 'problem' is what I heard referred to recently is their 'experience gap'. The people blue-sky thinking these projects have no idea how the vast majority of their electorate live. They consider themselves middle class, indeed, the 'squeezed middle class'. But most of them are public school educated, free university degree holding millionaires.

They neither know nor care about the rest of us because they don't need to.

MY tuppence worth is have they considered the effect this will have on their beloved house prices? When no one can afford to save for a deposit because the moment their salary climbs high enough to be able to even think about saving, in comes their debt payment. OR- and here's a thought- maybe the plan is that the wealthy at the top of teh pile, (those who'll pay their DC's fees up front, congratulating themselves on how much cheaper it is than public school) will snap up all the first time buyer homes and rent them to the young adults on 60 day safety of tenure? THAT'LL stabilise society nicely, won't it?

And the other thing will be the destruction of any feeling of moral duty where one might feel that if society has substantially funded 'my' teaching or nursing degree, I repay society by working in that public sector. I wouldn't be feeling THAT if I'd paid for it myself!

christmaseve - you're welcome. Made my blood boil too. I recommend you view scaryteacher's later post on the other thread - unintentionally hilarious.

No point getting upset by people like that.

ampere - think you have the Tories' aims down nicely - full-speed back to the Victorian era.

Trouble with hoping we'd all happily return to 19th C style serfdom is that they forget these dastardly plebs NOW HAVE THE VOTE.

They also have education, and the internet and are unlikely to just meekly say 'ok, sir'.

What a load of idiots.

@granted, ampere, riven, christmaseve and BoffinMum.

What's your opinion of the NUS Blueprint alternative to Tuition Fees.

Ed Miliband seems to favour a similar approach. Ed Miliband on Tuition Fees.

I'm interested to know if you support these proposals and why?

good point made on another thread. society needs people with degrees so everyone should pay a small amount towards the cost - in the same way we do for the NHS, courts, sixth form colleges, unemployment benefit and lots of other services.

i personally don't benefit from the NHS at the moment or courts or that many other public services - but accept that for the benefit of the country i must pay towards the cost of them.

why should our future graduates be singled out to bear such a huge burden of debt for the previous government's financial incompetence. this is so wrong - and i speak as a previously committed conservative

A good point was made on the Radio 4 Friday night comedy show a few weeks ago. This introduces a dangerous precedent. up till now we have not expected people to pay back for something that may (or may not) benefit them in the future.

For example. Tony Blair makes millions as a speaker/envoy/shiny person. The only reason he can make so much money is because he was PM, a job paid for by the British taxpayer. Surely he should pay back a significant part of his earnings because he would not be able to be a missionaire were it not for the British taxpayer?

A better, and slightly less controversial example. When MPs are in parliament they can, famously, claim mortgage relief on their second homes as part of their expenses. When they are voted out leave Parliament, why should they be allowed to profit from this? Surely the second homes should then be sold off and the proceeds returned to the nation? Why should shiny Dave be allowed to rent his second home in London, earning a large rental income, when this home was paid for by the taxpayer?

I can't see MPs giving up their nice little pension earners like that. Their argument is that they are doing a vital "job". But so do our graduates. Yes, some of them will earn a lot, but not all will be bankers, lawyers and doctors. A large percentage will be the teachers, nurses, the admin staff that keep the country running. If we drastically reduce the pool of educated workforce, we will be left having to import those with the necessary skills. I imagine the BNP and their cronies will have a field day with that.

Thank you, dreamingofsun.

My dad, also a long-term conservative, is as horrified as you.

It's not just the Lib Dems losing votes over this.

Thanks for posting that, jackstarbright.

I personally would prefer education fees to be 100% funded by the state (maintenance costs only for the v poorest), as before, but failing that, then yes, I think a graduate tax is far fairer than what the Condems propose -

(a) because it affects all graduates equally - those with rich parents can't buy them out of it,
(b) because it means those who can afford to pay most pay most,
(c) beause thereare no upfront costs to put people off,
(d) because it means those who are going into low-earning but socially vital careers like teaching are not put off, and
(e) because there is no fixed amount of 'debt' that graduates face, which I think is the real problem with the currently proposed system; instead graduates will just face a slightly higher rate of tax.

Should add, I like the fact that the money will be earmarked for education, not just disappear into the general pot.