Tube strike

[longfingernails]

Could Bob Crowe posssibly get London to hate him more?

The RMT are the NUM of today - and unlike the miners, no-one actually likes TfL staff or has any romantic notions about their work.

By the way, Ken Livingstone works from the offices of one of the striking unions, the TSSA.

So, MNers, how did you beat the strike and get into work today?

I for one don't hate the RMT, TSSA, Bob Crow or any of the striking staff.

They're striking for safety. And actually, I do like TfL staff. I thought we all liked them when they were leading passengers to safety after the 7/7 bombs and putting their lives at risk to save the lives of the travelling public.

What exactly do you have against TfL staff longfingernails?

What does Ken Livingstone's office space have to do with anything?

Do you think cutting jobs on the underground is a good thing then ?

I don't recall many ticket office staff rushing to the help of the 7/7 victims. It was almost all done by the emergency services.

Yes, I think cutting jobs on the underground is a good thing - especially if it means that fare increases are kept low.

I think the staff are ricidulously underworked and overpaid for what they do. Oyster has made many of their jobs pointless. The TfL proposal has no compulsory redundancies. The ticket office staff are unhappy they will be redeployed on platforms instead of skiving off behind their glass walls, but tough.

They are rude, inattentive, and often do not know the fine detail of their own ticket prices.

Drivers and platform staff are also vastly overpaid. Tube trains are largely automated - and increasingly so.

I would prefer low fares and far fewer TfL staff.

If extra security is needed at nights - well, a private security officer is much cheaper to employ than someone working in a ticket office.

A typical friendly, helpful TfL platform staffer

Sorry the link didn't work - try this one

Yes, I know, I was (obviously?) just making mischief - but quite seriously - TfL platform staff are almost without exception rude, arrogant, and seem to hate their passengers.

We could do with far fewer of them. About 70% of the time the announcements they make are incomprehensible. "Stand back from the yellow line"? "The next train is approaching"? Totally automatable.

Comparable cities have far cheaper metro systems.

For example, a single ticket in New York is only $2.25 (around £1.50). In London it is £4.

The tube is vastly overpriced - and I put most of that down to Bob Crowe and the RMT. He is the Scargill of our time. Boris needs to channel his inner Maggie.

Keeping travel prices low increases our global competitiveness and would be a great boost to London's productivity. A few thousand TfL jobs would be a tiny price to pay for a 20p fare cut.

I don't think the MTA in New York gets public subsidies. In your defence, it is facing a big funding shortfall and has had to raise fares, get rid of various concessions, etc. - but I am not sure it is subsidised.

Capital investment in the Tube is massively funded by the taxpayer - even if a lot of it is hidden from the books thanks to Gordon Brown's PFI disasters with Metronet etc.

I am not sure about subsidies - though certainly there is a large amount of concessionary travel that is more heavily subsidised in Britain than in many comparable countries.

Spot on Prolesworth.

I'm surprised by LFN's experience of tube staff being rude and arrogant.

That's not my experience at all. I use the tube every day and I can't think of a single occasion when a member of staff was rude or unhelpful to me.

And as for Bob Crow being the Scargill of our time - that might be an insult in your book LFN but that's a great compliment in mine ;)

A tip: be extra polite to any tube or station staff you see in uniform today.

Those on strike are not allowed to wear their uniform. Therefore, the people who are in uniform have probably crossed the picket lines and therefore, are the members of staff who genuinely care about their passengers and the service they provide.

They are the ones that TfL should try their hardest to keep.

I haven't been to Barcelona, unfortunately.

You're probably right; European metros are almost certainly more heavily subsidised than their American counterparts, purely on the basis of broad political culture. I think in Paris they have a special "Metro tax" on businesses - though again, my knowledge is a bit hazy.

There is of course an excellent case for public capital investment in transport infrastructure - though, it has to be done intelligently - for example, big new roads are better built by the private sector, and paid for by tolls. Good transport links are one of the few things that the State is essential for.

There is a far weaker case for public subsidy of transport fares, in my opinion. There are many alternatives to the Tube - cycling, buses, etc - and passenger numbers are at breaking point. Unfortunately it is politically difficult to take away free travel from pensioners etc. If users paid more equally, fares would be much fairer for everyone.

I reject the argument that having staff on platforms instead of in ticket offices decreases safety.

I don't think there is a big increase in safety from having two ticket office staff instead of one either.

To be honest, I suspect number of ticket office staff only impacts "fear of crime", not crime itself. Of course fear of crime is important but these public psychology issues are more suited to times of plenty than times of austerity.

I don't think that they are subsidised enough by the state. All of these politicians who pretend that they are green, just so that they can tax us even more, don't invest in public transport. That's why the fares are high. I don't think the drivers and other staff are overpaid, particularly if we compare them to the staff at the BBC, who are paid out of the public purse. They are an essential service for the people of London and for the economy. Let's cut the BBC back before we look at TFL.

I don't believe they are striking because of safety cuts TBH.

FWIW I am a born and bred leftie, dragged on marches to support the miners by my parents in the 80s etc and very supportive of collective action, but I do think this is ridiculous. People are losing their jobs all over the place at the moment, I don't know why the RMT think they are somehow so 'special' that they can hold the capital to ransom. I'm glad to see they are not getting much public support.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that tube drivers earn around £40k a year and that the stated aim of the RMT is to eventually negotiate a 4 day week. IF that is true, it really shows how out of touch they are. However that may all be utter crap, can anyone on here clarify?

drivers are in a very responsible job, and are responsible for the lives of the passengers. Crashes do occur. I don't think they are overpaid. Let's cut some of the waste in the councils, where these green socialist bureaucrats are lining their pockets as waste planners
jobview.monster.co.uk/Waste-Planner-Job-South-West-England-South-West-UK-90582981.aspx

Let's cut the bureaucrats and pay the drivers who keep the city and economy functioning.

claig Drivers aren't in a very responsible job.

For example, the Victoria line is automated. Drivers do nothing except open the doors (because sadly, management caved in to the RMT about driverless trains long ago) - and they can't even manage that.

Here is one of last year's pointless strikes, where Bob Crow suddenly decided that RMT drivers were too thick to open doors on the right side, and therefore demanded an overengineered expensive new IT system for "safety reasons". Of course, as computers can open the doors, no driver is necessary - but I suspect he wouldn't see it like that.

www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23696176-24-hour-walkout-brings-victoria-line-to-a-standstill.do

very interesting longfingernails, I did not know that but it's all of a piece with everything I know about Bob Crow and the RMT.

as a side issue claig, I am bemused as to what your problem is with the waste planner job you have linked to, presumably you would prefer the waste to pile up in our streets uncollected?

I think a whole new army of green jobs has been created, which didn't exist 20 years ago. I think it is wasteful and excessive and the public has to pay for many of these jobs out of their taxes. I would be in favour of any party that had the courage to cut back on the proliferation of green jobs.

but I won't hold my breath, because all of the parties are intent on maintaining the green illusion

erm, claig you may not have noticed but the govt is to a large extent relying on 'green' industries to be the big growth industries of the future, you know, the industries which will hopefully pull us out of recession.

Going hugely off-topic, but the challenge of global warming could potentially be the thing which helps save our economy. There is tons of brilliant innovative work going on in green technology, it's a huge growth area with the potential to employ lots and lots of people in the future. IIRC we are trying to create jobs at the moment and not cut them. To sort out this her economic crisis. Are you and I living in the same country?

Or maybe rather than starting to train and employ skilled people in useful productive green industries we should instead sit them in tube trains and pay them £40k a year to work 4 days a week opening and closing doors - a job which a machine can do

novicemama, that's what they all tell us, but I think taht they are lying. I'd rather have real train drivers ferrying the public around London so that they can spend real pounds in real shops, than the pie-in-the-sky green theories which will only serve to impoverish the country.