Do you believe in God?

[VirtualPA]

I am interested to know what the majority of people belive.

I personally believe in a Christian God, Heaven and hell etc.

I raised a strict an athiest

Backtotalkaboutthis;

I love your posts

& I'm with you 100%

Meh - both sides in this debate have used crappy tactics - smugness, patronisingness (it's a word now), aggression, hard-headedness, holier/cleverer-than-thouness, passive-aggression, rudeness etc etc. Makes me remember that whoever you are, whatever you believe, everyone is a sod when they think they are right.

Christians! Atheists want proof. You cannot (by the very nature of faith) provide it.

Atheists! Christians have chosen to believe something on faith. You will not sway them with logic.

Bashing each other and trying to convince each other is pointless and boring. Theology is only interesting in the abstract.

lol at patronisingness

well I wasn't rude till I was insulted

hello dp

i think it's you and me babe

Hello bttat;

I'm taking a break from posting....but I follow the occasional thread. I've noticed you around & I like your style...so will now become your official stalker...he he..

gosh -- best get my hair done

actually am being forced to log off after tomorrow for aaaaaaaaaaagges

lol....I'm logging off too for the summer, ...I've actually enjoyed following threads as much as contributing to them...zeph made me rofl when she asked UQD if we all remind him of his mother..[Norman Bates]

Hope you enjoy your break......& make sure you come back!

I dont believe in God and have no time for people knocking on my door saying, helloooo and how are you today. I have enough in my life already and dont need religion, I dont understand it at all but do find it very interesting as a subject matter. I will say that the bible is a bloody good story paased down over many years, more to do with 'historical leanings' than 'faith'.

sayanything - it's one of the things that really annoys me about Greek society. They just don't seem to get atheism. MIL is overjoyed when I politely attend the church for a wedding, thinking I am about to convert. It's especially irritating at Easter when people say "Christos anesti" to you all the time and expect you to reply "alithos". I just smile at them and bid them good day.

backtotalk - I can see where you are coming from, but Christians I have spoken to argue that the existence of evil is a consequence of free will. Make of that what you will.

UQD - you are so right about where the burden of proof lies, but would you believe it, I've actually had Christians say to me "but how can you prove that god does not exist?"

I see you've got an ally, backtotalk...Allow me to quote one of my father's favourite songs.

" 'Twas an evening in October, I'll confess I wasn't sober,
I was carting home a load with manly pride,
When my feet began to stutter and I fell into the gutter,
And a pig came up and lay down by my side.
Then I lay there in the gutter and my heart was all a-flutter,
Till a lady, passing by, did chance to say:
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses,"
Then the pig got up and slowly walked away."

backtotalkaboutthis, I think I see what you were getting at with the logical impossibility (before you lost it), but it wasn't very useful or very clear. Of course what (most) religious people say about their god(s) contradicts itself. That's why we tend to hold the beliefs in such contempt. However this doesn't prove that their god doesn't exist. Only that they are not very good at thinking things through or they'd have spotted it themselves.

I think you meant to say that it proves that 'their' god (the very specific one they are describing) doesn't exist and that is technically correct even though it leaves open the possibility that 'a' god exists. Possibly a very similar one - just without the contradiction.

So atheists say "Of course we can't prove your god doesn't exist" and in the usual meaning of the words we are right to say so.

What really puzzles me is that you then seemed to be saying that they are praiseworthy because they keep their belief even though it can be shown to be wrong.

Different Christians offer different reasons for believing. Some say they have an inner voice that tells them things. If that inner voice contradicts itself then to continue believing it would not be something to be proud of.

The same for those who claim the bible to be the word of god. If that is their claim than the moment it contradicts itself there is no reason to take any of it seriously.

I like you, Psammead. And I like UQD to, although I think that's because for some reason I always picture him looking like Giles from BTVS. I would appreciate it if no one shattered this illusion for me.

At the end of the day, no one who believes anything strongly , especially something so personal as this, is going to be swayed. I can appreciate that. I don't agree with SGB, but I'm in favor of the zeal with which she (he? guess I never read that profile) defends her/his beliefs.

I don't feel the need to explain to anyone why I believe what I do(at least not today )because frankly, I don't care what you have to say about it.

Thanks. Without wanting to turn this super-friendly thread (lol) into even more of a love fest - I like you too. You fit your name and have sensible opinions.

diplodoris, I just read the article you linked to. 'is jesus god'

It's a good attempt, but falls short of being convincing on a few points.

It mentions the point (also made by C.S.Lewis) that if jesus was not actually god then he was a liar or a madman. I've always liked that point, but since he could have been a well meaning madmen it doesn't prove he was god.

More importantly the article admits that none of the gospels were written by eye witnesses. This was hearsay written down decades later. Funnily enough I was taught in sunday school that they were there. I was told that is why their stories don't match up. Because one might have been out of the room when something was said and missed it.

So what they are apparently is stories written by people who asked other people what they could remember other people saying 40 years or more ago. Of course it came out different. I expect many of the anecdotes had to be rejected because they didn't fit what the author wanted.

In the article the guy mentions the possibility that it was embellished by the christians. He rejects this as something Christians wouldn't do, but given my experience in sunday school I think I'm entitled to laugh at that one.

And for what it's worth, I picture UQD as a young Geoff Boycott. Absolutely no idea why. Is it a bit creepy to imagine what people look like?

What I have sometimes wondered in regards to Jesus being the self-proclaimed son of God is whether he was saying he was the son of God in that everyone is a son and daughter of God, or whether he actually meant it literally.

Bit sketchy on the details in the Good Book of how he actually referred to himself - anyone care to enlighten me?

What I mean is (sorry, not expressing myself too clearly) is that Jesus really existed - right? I mean, we have records of him. And I am sure he was a very well-intentioned and obviously massively influential individual. But I cannot accept he was the son of God because I don't actually believe in God. So, did he actually claim to be part of the trinity?

Hmm...well. I know he was asked if he was the son of God and he replied "you have said so," but beyond that I don't remember. I should have spent a bit more time paying attention in confirmation class and bit less time with my eye on the boy I shared a table with. I can try to look it up if you'd like; I'm curious myself. I'm in a bookstore right now, I could check it out. I remember when someone asked him why he spent so much time with prostitutes and theives or whatever, and he said something like "Who needs a doctor more, the sick or the well," which leads me to believe Jesus was a fan of the snappy comeback.

No way, he totally looks like this!

Lol, yes, probably it is. I will have to change my name to CreepyYank. FWIW, though, I usually look exactly like what people think I do.

'Spare a shekel for an old ex-leper?' It's all a bit 'Life of Brian' really!

"Bit sketchy on the details in the Good Book of how he actually referred to himself - anyone care to enlighten me?"

Psammead, Jesus said things like "I and the Father are one".

When Jesus was on trial he was asked "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

Did Jesus Claim to be the Son of God?

Living with someone who is 'mad', I don't see that Jesus believing he was the Messiah, but not being so, actually either makes him 'mad' or that even if he were 'mad' that this means that everything else he ever said and did in his life was worthless.

onagar - "More importantly the article admits that none of the gospels were written by eye witnesses. This was hearsay written down decades later. Funnily enough I was taught in sunday school that they were there. I was told that is why their stories don't match up. Because one might have been out of the room when something was said and missed it."

He doesn't say that, he says:

"[Archialogical discoveries] have conclusively shown that the four biographies of Christ were written within the lifetime of contemporaries of Christ."

He's just discussing the dating, not the authorship.

But if we take the traditional authorship of the gospels at face value (I'm not well enough up on Biblical scholarship to know what the latest theories on their authorship are) then two of the gospels (Matthew and John) were written by disciples of Jesus, and John took care of Jesus' mother. Mark is considered likely to have been the young man present at Jesus' arrest, and was among the early Christians. Luke accompanied Paul on some of his travels.

Psammead - As well as what Jesus said himself, after the resurrection, Thomas said to him "my Lord and my God" and didn't get rebuked for it. John 20:28

yes. I'm a christian