Do you believe in God?

[VirtualPA]

I am interested to know what the majority of people belive.

I personally believe in a Christian God, Heaven and hell etc.

I raised a strict an athiest

SomeGuy - I clearly don't believe that, and I have just set out my reasons for continuing to reiterate the same thing.

Think of something you don't believe in. I can't suppose what it might be, but think of it. Something made up - a myth, a fairytale, a piece of fictional narrative. Got one? Good. Now imagine that, on an almost daily basis, you run into people who believe this thing to be true, to be real, despite there being absolutely NO evidence for it - and, beyond that (more dangerously) would like aspects of our lives, and your children's lives, to be guided and decided by this imaginary thing.

Wouldn't you try - over and over and over again - to point this out? Or do you just give up and go home?

I could equally ask how many books I had to read about Greek legend before deciding that Zeus and co. were made-up myths.

But UQD, the reason we can have these debates ad nauseum is because there is no CONVINCING evidence either way. Isn't it great? We have free will!

Well, maybe if you constantly encountered people who believed in Zeus and co. and it really wound you up, you would have read them !

UQD, I wouldn't bother when it's obviously a fruit task.

Dipplodoris
A few years ago I was witness to a very tragic accident on the motorway which led to the death of a young girl.

The next day the police turned up to take witness statments from myself and my then boyfriend.

We could not even agree on the colour of the main car involved and this was 24 hours after the event.

I have posted earlier saying that reading the Bible is like Kate Adie broadcasting a 'live' account from the Battle of Agincourt. Most of the Bible was written many, many years later.

How can you be certain that Jesus did say this, that or the other and that the person transcribing (many years) after the event did not have their agenda. Or how can you ignore the 'Chinese Whispers' of distortion?

I repeat. I am not asking you to memorise the Bible but when you quote it can you back it up with the dates and times etc.

I am frequently perplexed as an English scholar whether or not Shakespere wrote this that or the other. Personally I feel he did not write all that is attributed to him. I feel the same about the Bible.

Also the same goes for 20th century quotes attributed to Oscar Wilde, Dorothy Parker, Gandhi etc- all written by others or warped by time and wannabes

I am about to sleep but one last thing - would you drive a car on a road today sticking to the rules of the 1935 Highway Code?

merry - when you say there is no convincing evidence either way, this is slightly misleading.

This does not take into account that scepticism has to be the "default setting" and that the perosn making the positive claim - i.e. "X exists" - needs to provide the evidence.

Before you dispute this, do the exercise I have suggested to SomeGuy above and think of a thing you don't believe in. It should all become clear. (Or maybe not.)

I really do wonder where the Sikh/Hindu/Shinto MNers are on this kind of thread. Is it because Sikhism and the Hindu faith are not monotheistic that they see 'god' in the title and think 'monotheism therefore not relevant to me?' I have at seen plenty of postings from MNers stating that they themselves are Jewish or Muslim and I don't recall ever seeing a post on one of these threads from a Sikh/Hindo/Shinto/Santeria/erm-help-me-out-isn't-there-at-least-one-more-major-myth-system-that-stil l-has-followers pleasing the case for their lot. But buyers of other brands of mythology don't seem to feel quite the same frenzied squawking desperation to assert that their particular imaginary friend is real, as (some) Christians do.
So fish-heads Christian MNers - why the big deal with forever having to bug other people about your particular brand of crap? Is it a kind of class-privilege thing, what with Christianity being the official brand of crap in the UK? Or is there someting inherently pesky in this particular set of myths?

I think I have seen two or three posts from active Muslims, but it does generally tend to be Christians who are the squawkiest. It's quite fun to watch.

And the bottom line for me is this. I don;t care what other people believe in, so long as it's not harmful to themselves or other people. However, I do object very strongly to them imposing their beliefs on me or on my children. I don't impose my lack of belief on them - why should I put up with them inflicting their beliefs on me?

I'm guessing that you've read about the history of Christianity UQD. But have you read any books by Christians dedicated to the Frequently Asked Questions that non-believers usually raise? You've said yourself that people on the internet haven't provided the answers you've asked for. There's more detailed information in these books than any of us can hope to go into in a short forum post.

The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus

I suspect that UnquietDad might be quite well read..........

Diplodoris: Life is really too short to read the special pleading of a lot of knob-ends who are going to be missing out on any of the skills that make a writer enjoyably readable. Reading books about 'Why I am A Fish-head and You Should Be TOo' is about as much fun as listening to Christian Rock.
OK listening to Christian Rock, for a few minutes at a time, is hysterically funny, but again life is too short to give it more than five minutes.

Not disputing whether he's well-read, just want to know whether he's specifically read any Christian apologetics?

Presumably you see this thread in a similar light SGB, so why are you reading it if "life is too short"?

"Life is really too short to read the special pleading of a lot of knob-ends who are going to be missing out on any of the skills that make a writer enjoyably readable."

"So fish-heads Christian MNers - why the big deal with forever having to bug other people about your particular brand of crap? Is it a kind of class-privilege thing, what with Christianity being the official brand of crap in the UK? Or is there someting inherently pesky in this particular set of myths?"

that's a good question SGB. Christians are just following orders. From Matthew 28:19 (after Jesus rose from the dead):

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

And Acts 1:

So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

lamplighter There isn't room on here to go into all the historical evidence for the Bible's accuracy, but here are a few "tasters" for you.

The Bible is the best-preserved literary work in history, with over 24,000 ancient New Testament manuscripts discovered so far.

There are hand-written copies of the Old Testament dating back to the 200s BC, which are almost identical to the Bible we read today.

The Dead Sea scrolls (a collection of about 900 documents including texts from the Hebrew Bible) were abandoned in about 68AD and re-discovered between 1947 and 1956. Despite the passage of time, they match exceptionally well the modern-day Bible.

There are no early documents disputing any of the Biblical writings or conflicting with them. No archeological find has ever contradicted a historical statement made in the Bible, whereas many findings have confirmed them.

It's a bloody PIA tbh and I would much rather keep my head down

misspollysdolly, your statement that we have free will appears to directly contradict your statement that "all interaction with others and all circumstance is brought about by the will and guiding of God"

diplodoris, if you think there is a writer who has come up with something convincing then why not simply say it yourself? There must be a million of these books and each time we say we haven't heard any reason yet to suppose that god exists someone can suggest reading another. That could go on forever.

Just say what the main point was and maybe we'll be interested in reading the book

The ones I have read were mostly on the level of "god exists because he told me so" or "oh look a tree! that proves god exists!"

Diplodoris: No, on a thread one can have fun poking the piggies with a stick. Reading a badly-written stupid book (sorry but all books about WHy I Am A Fishhead are badly written and stupid - if the person had anything interesting to say and any writing skills they would have written a proper book -just like CS Lewis, whose Narnia books are enjoyable even if one can't be arsed with the superstitious subtext.)

"if you think there is a writer who has come up with something convincing then why not simply say it yourself?"

Published writers put it much better than I could They get a couple of hundred pages to do it in, whereas on here, we don't.

The "main point" I would say is that if someone is genuinely interested it's worth doing the research/reading and finding out for yourself. I know what you mean about simplistic books but there are others (Amazon reviews are helpful in spotting which is which!)