Do you believe in God?

[VirtualPA]

I am interested to know what the majority of people belive.

I personally believe in a Christian God, Heaven and hell etc.

I raised a strict an athiest

"MrsY, people very often do not have a realistic choice as to whether to send their children to a faith or community school. "

Seeker sighs,and says, for what feels like the 457th time, eveniftheydo - the community schools still pray and teach Christianity. There is no such thing as a secular school in this country!

Yes, it's quaint language. Not all churches use the old-fashioned language any more. But if you're not a "miserable offender" to even the slightest degree, are you saying you're perfect?

diplodoris

A few years ago I was witness to a very tragic accident on the motorway which led to the death of a young girl.

The next day the police turned up to take witness statments from myself and my then boyfriend.

We could not even agree on the colour of the main car involved and this was 24 hours after the event.

I have posted earlier saying that reading the Bible is like Kate Adie broadcasting a 'live' account from the Battle of Agincourt. Most of the Bible was written many, many years later.

How can you be certain that Jesus did say this, that or the other and that the person transcribing (many years) after the event did not have their agenda. Or how can you ignore the 'Chinese Whispers' of distortion?

I'm going to start referring to DS as a miserable offender when he throws a tantrum...

I love the term miserable offender.

Sounds like me when I start moaning on.

Coincidence: an event that might have been arranged although it was really accidental.

Free will: the power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies.

These two look pretty different to me actually, onagar

We do have free will - it is in fact central to Christian faith - without which we would be purely in the hands of a God who - vice-like - constrains and controls us. It is therefore our responsibility to seek wisdom and guidance from God and others and also to seek to honour God, love others and in excercising that free-will. Coincidence - for me - does not exist, since all interaction with others and all circumstance is brought about by the will and guiding of God.

UQD - Your view of God is very legalistic or of him as hard-hearted judge - that all good behaviour is about 'getting into his good books' or that the sole aim of life (in the sight of god - if you believed in one, obv!) is to gain your ticket into eternity. God has a place as judge certainly, but primarily God loves us. And nothing you can do can make him love you more. And nothing you can do can make him love you less. God just loves you. Grace, it's called. When we love others and respect others, rather than adding a tick against your name in his 'good book' God's heart rejoices, but he loves neither the giver or receiver of that good act no more nor less than previously. He just completely loves.

diplodoris - of course I am not perfect (what a daft question) but I don't feel the need to use the language of self-abasement to know this.

It's incomprehensible to me that we haven't moved on from all this. Some days here it's like the Enlightenment never happened.

It wasn't a daft question, UQD. I was taking your argument to its logical conclusion to point out that it didn't work.

i LOVE God,,

"Rhetorical" doesn't equal daft

Diplodoris

Would you please reply to my question. It was heartfelt.

lamplighter, I have been thinking about your question and definitely reply to you. I'm trying to put together as helpful a reply as I can and will be back later.

Ah, yes. When people say "I took your argument to its logical conclusion", they usually mean "I took your argument off at a wild and deliberately exaggerated tangent in a fruitless attempt to prove that the reasonable thing that you actually said was, in fact, insane."

I just said am not comfortable using that abasing language, and don't see why I should. It's only one of many reasons I no longer go to church. Let's see:

For:
Some nice people.
Tea and biscuits.
Some interesting stories.

Against:
Deadly dull.
I hate getting up early on Sunday mornings.
I don't believe any of it.
There is no evidence for any of it.
A lot of it comes across as patronising and smug.

But really, this is all derailing/window-dressing, designed to lure us away from the basic, "primary-school" point which has not yet been adequately addressed - neither here nor in my previous 15 years of arguing with the religious - namely that there is no more evidence for your "god" than for anything else made-up, mythical, invented or fictional. Everything else is incidental. Until you get past that, you just haven't got a case.

Diplodoris

It was at at 17.05 on the 25th June 2010 just in case you cannot find it

There's plenty of evidence UQD. What books have you read so far about Christianity and the arguments for its truth?

IMO it's not the language of abasement, as though you were talking to an implacably angry God (as described by misspollysdolly), it's about humility in the knowledge of the love of a forgiving God.

Diplodoris

What is there to think about about? Maybe you need time to look up the answer because you do not have one of your own and need advice from a member of the cloth?

Just wondering. What will he/she come up with?

By the way, all the self-proclaimed 'My imaginary friend has made me a better person' types - how do you account for the number of absolute shitheads (you know, the paedophile-defending, racist, homophobic, woman-hating, warmongering ones) who clain to belong to the same myth club as you?
Do you have to leave it at a level of 'well they're not proper members of the Big Blue Banana Club'?

at this moment in time yes i do and i am saying big fat prayers

lamplighter I'm not going to talk to a "member of the cloth", but I don't have the entire history of Bible translation committed to memory I'm afraid. I'm sure you'd rather I let you know some facts rather than make a guess

This thread is quite amusing: UQD clearly believes if he only repeats again how ridiculous religion is, the believers will up and change their mind. And diplodoris thinks if he reads the right book he will change his....

If you need a "reading list" to explain the Bible, it obviously isn't doing a very good job on is own as a holy text. I've read as much or as little about Christianity as I have about other myth systems. Why is it that we can all agree that their gods are made up, but we are supposed to accept the big capital-G god as "real"? There is no difference - only special pleading. See my post about dragons above.

It isn't up to me to offer the evidence - it's up to the person making the special case. Namely the believer.

Sorry to bang on about this, and it may make me sound a bit like a "broken record", but it really is essential to keep reiterating this point. Otherwise people may just assume it has been conceded and wonder why on earth we don't all give up and become Christians.

UnquietDad, I'm interested in the scepticism thing...it reminds me of guilty until proven innocent. (It was a while back on the thread though). Oh, and I'd appreciate some nice thoughts coming my way!

In terms of faith in schools...I live in a very mixed area. There is no prevailing faith (if any, perhaps muslim). The school teaches all sorts, the kids in school celebrate Guru Nanak's birthday etc. I think it adds to the richness of life. My neighbour gave me fireworks for ds1 for Diwali and we lit them. Ds1's teacher wears a cross round her neck and her nursery kids made a tomb at Easter (made a change from Easter bonnets...though they made them too ). I'd be upset if they taught that my beliefs were myths, just as the Muslims or Hindus would be upset too. I expect the school to teach what different people believe - and not judge what's a myth or not.

I didn't say that, SomeGuy, LOL. But if a non-believer is really that interested to discover the details of Christian evidence then what would stop them reading about it and researching it themselves?