Do you believe in God?

[VirtualPA]

I am interested to know what the majority of people belive.

I personally believe in a Christian God, Heaven and hell etc.

I raised a strict an athiest

UQD, are you seriously calling anyone with a faith a "demented wacko"?

diplodoris - you totally misread my post. Go back and read it again.

Demented wacko? UQD, are you flirting with me?

I already posted, but again, yes I do. Most definitely.

But as long as what you believe isn't hurting anyone I couldn't care less. I'd like the same respect, please.

UQD - I disagree - I think strong atheists are as drawn to this kind of debate as strong Christians/Muslims/Jews etc. It's the middle-of-the-road bunch who wouldn't bother. And I think those people probably make up the majority.

The "not hurting anyone" idea is an interesting one. It all depends where you draw the lines of harm.

As I said before, there is no harm in having myths and legends. They can be good fun and interesting. But I'd question the mental state of someone who believed that Isis and Osiris were actual beings who had walked among us in the time of the ancient Egyptians. And I'd look a bit at someone who liked to think that there were genuinely such things as fairies, dragons and leprechauns. I see no reason to treat the Christian myth system on a different level - no reason, that is, other than special pleading. In 15 years of arguing with Christians, nobody has ever demonstrated adequately why I should do so.

And, as I've said above, I think it is emotionally and intellectually dangerous for me to mislead my children into thinking that they don't need to fulfil their potential in this life, because it's supposedly just some kind of rehearsal and all that matters is buying a ticket to Eternity. I would be failing them as a parent if I did so.

Psammead - I don't think we disagree on that, then, do we? I suppose it just depends on how we define "strong atheists". I wouldn't put people who think "don't be daft, why on earth would I think that?", and just walk on by, in that category.

If you'd put quotes around "No, to all but a bunch of demented wackos" then it would be clearer that it wasn't your opinion.

I'm always attracted to read these threads, I don't know why as I fully realize and find it a bit funny that posters keep going round and round, saying basically the same stuff over and over, and it's always the same people ( atheists) ie onegar, UQD, SolidGold, seeker, where is Bunnylebowski ?

I read, rarely post, a year ago had a sort of a row with UQD under different name, well told him off for telling me off ( unfairly!)

A couple of months ago I decided not to post on MN any more as waste of time etc and resisted for a while but broke my resolution seeing this thread. And I only wanted to say, yes I'm a believer.... It's like an alcoholic deceiving themselves, just one little...

Although, given what this place is like, the flat-earthers will probably be on here in a minute to tell me that I am not showing due respect to their perfectly legitimate belief system.

Sorry, flat-earthers. Don't stop believing, will you?

So, what do you all hope to achieve by taking part in this type of debate?

I try to stay away from the debate part, I was just casting my vote.

I know what you're saying, UQD, and I would never teach my son that. It's quite the opposite really; we must fulfill our potential and find our purpose because we are here for a reason. ( I can actually hear you rolling your eyes, all the way across the pond ) And I understand it's odd to say "as long as it's not hurting anyone" because religion has hurt untold numbers of people over the years and continues to do so. But my belief in It has never made me anything but a better person, and I honestly can't help believing any more than you can help not.

How goes the Buffy watching? Have you got to the musical episode yet? Tis grand.

I am an atheist to my core.

The lack of a god makes the life much less distressing to me than the thought there was some omnipotent being picking and choosing who gets on the recieving end of some atrocity.

My science background gives me a place to turn to when I want answers- or at least the possiblity of answers- or the possibility of theorising an answer and testing it to destruction. On these things my inner happiness depends.

Much as I personally have no truck with organised religion I dont belive if you could overnight somehow remove all religion, the world would improve. Relgion provides the inner happiness for religious people's that I get from atheism.

This is why atheists upset the religious, we threaten your world view, whereas you can not threaten ours.

UQD - There is no way that this life is just 'some kind of rehearsal and all that matters is buying a ticket to Eternity' - what a huge misunderstanding. My physical death will bring about a new phase in my life, but my life with God - that is forever, for real, eternal, if you will - is right here right now. This is most certainly not a rehearsal! And the 'ticket' you refer to is not mine to strive for - is has been provided for me by my wonderful God, and purchased by Jesus. This is it - my life is lived for God and all that is good is sourced in him. All the paths I may cross, all the work I do church-based and secular is done for his glory and to worship and honour him. If you met me - depending on the context of course - you would not necessarily know this, since it is not my style to spout about my faith or to make others feel uncomfortable, but still in all my dealings in life I seek God and I offer them back to God. This is not a rehearsal. This is real life, right here, right now - and forever.

sorry, rogue apostrophe

But UQD , I do not know a single Christian who encourages their children to not fulfill their potential in this life ! You really get this very wrong.

I have three boys, youngest only four so still very young but eldest two are teenagers and I can tell you they are great kids, each of a unique character of their own, both full of plans for the future, ambition, enjoy life to max, lots of friends.

Did I fail them as a parent ? It's laughable, really.

seraphine - there is a reason for that, I think (the apparent repetitiveness). At least for my part. The reason is that we get to the point where there simply aren't any more answers. In the words of Run DMC, "It's like that, and that's the way that it is." For 15 years, I've been arguing with Christians and literally hearing nothing new. Absolutely nothing. No argument that can't be refuted, no logical hole that can't have a massive great London bus driven right through the middle of it. And I don't mean by me - I'm not the world's best arguer. I mean by people who can put this stuff into words more eloquently than I can. There are some great ones here, for example

It's not like other arguments - say, Doctor Who fans versus haters, or Labour versus Conservative - where the ground shifts and there is constant re-invention, because some points have been addressed and have thrown up other, new, possibly more interesting ones. It just doesn't happen. The reason I, and other atheists, keep asking the same questions is that they have never been adequately answered. That's all.

On the James Randi Educational Foundation Forum - a fine place to visit, if you haven't already done so - the regulars sometimes have a system of simply abandoning debate and repeating the unanswered irrationalities which have not been addressed. It means debate goes nowhere, but often it is the only way to avoid blowing a gasket.

misspolly- you're still saying that you believe life is "forever", though. I wouldn't want to bring a child up to think that. Personally. I know it seems nice to do so, but it focuses the mind wonderfully to know you only have three score years and ten and then you are dust.

Can we get back to the real question here? UQD, the Buffy episode with the singing and whatnot- yay or nay?

www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

Message withdrawn

diplodoris What does anyone achieve by taking part in any debate? I should think there is more than one answer

• the chance to voice your opinions
• the chance to explore your own feelings
• the chance to change someone else's mind (HA!)
• the chance for a nice, juicy argument
• the chance to hear other people's justifications for their views
• the chance to hear more justification for your own position
• the chance to tell other people they are stupid

etc.

Why keep posting on these threads? Well, in the hope that those who are undecided one way or another might get a moment of clarity, or just possibly that those who have been conned or conning themselves for years will have a lightbulb moment - and most importantly, to fight for the right to insult and despise superstition and not allow the superstitious extra privileges just because they 'believe' something idiotic.
And also, as UQD says - wondering if at some point someone will actually be able to come up with a proper, logical reason why their particular imaginary friend is any less ludicrous or implausible than the Tooth Fairy, Apollo and Venus, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

(BTW UQD I noticed upthread you namechecked the appalling Joanna Bogle and thought you would like to know that I kicked her superstitious nasty backside (metaphorically, everyone) in a debate about 15 years ago.)

I believe in the 'teachings' of many religions such as right from wrong and thou shalt not kill, so I believe in the 'morals' of religion but not in the worship of a god.
So I don't believe in a 'supreme being' just living side by side in harmony and enough faith in humanity that it one day may be peaceful.

Heh-heh! They always drag Bogle out when there is a need for a religious zealot on Jeremy Vine or the like. She is unfailingly smug and patronising, drowns out her opponents and generally attempts to stop the voices of rationality from being heard. Thankfully, they always put her alongside somebody with weary patience like Julian Baggini.

"You can argue about whether Jesus was the Messiah" You can indeed. It's no great shakes to "predict" that a great prophet would come along and then jump up and down saying, "yes, him! That's the one I meant!" It's also worth pointing out that history rarely records predictions that don't "come true". It's a bit like Nostradamus. Say enough random stuff and some of that random stuff is bound to end up being like what actually happens.

I'm going to start saying a bunch of random stuff. (I mean, more than usual ) Perhaps I will become known as a great prophet. Hmmm...is that tax-exempt, d'ya think?