Do you believe in God?

[VirtualPA]

I am interested to know what the majority of people belive.

I personally believe in a Christian God, Heaven and hell etc.

I raised a strict an athiest

God does not intervene as there is a thing called free will the consequences of humanities actions is faced by humanity the only thing he provides is something to believe in it allows people to find strength and comfort and that is not a bad thing.

There are stories in the bible where God has directly intervened (old testament) however he then decided that he won't directly intervene again.

As to religion causing conflict this is nonsense religion does not kill people, people kill people and they will use any excuse with which to do so. In fact the worlds largest wars with the highest amounts of deaths have not been due to religion.

If he existed, god would surely realise a nice bit of OT-style intervention would do wonders on the old "convincing people he's real" front. A nice bit of smiting, maybe, or some fire and brimstone, or a good old parting-the-seas trick. Come on, god, mate. You used to be so good at all this magic, if we are to believe the stories. Trot out an old one to impress us!!

alexpolismum
"nickelbabe - some Christians believe that the "other comforter" is the holy spirit."

thank you for that - that's what i believe, but i didn't know if it was a wide-spread idea, so didn't want to put it...

But you can't have it both ways. I know that after the Flood, God saisd he wouldn't interven in the affairs of Man again. So how come people say they have had their prayers answered? And why do people pray if God has already said he's not going to intervene?

And presumably every time there is a so-called healing at somewhere like Lourdes that's God intervening.

maybe he's got a huge list and just picks requests at random.

or maybe he does it on merit.

Wish I had time to read whole thread - hope the OP counts and publishes the stats at the end.

I'm (yet another) raised Christian - all the way through to university fervent CU - who finally started thinking for myself and realised that my belief in God was a delusion.

Thats the difference he wants people to believe because they want to Unquiet he is not here to 'impress' with magic he is looking for faith.

God helps those who help themselves - basically don't sit around asking for things to be done you need to go out there and try.

It's like that golfer - was it Arnold Palmer? - when someone said he was lucky he sadi"Yes,a nd the more I practice, the luckier I get"

So God wants you to go out and help yourself - and the more you help yourself the more your prayers are answered?

I repeat. If God said after the Flood that he was not going to interven any more, Why does He appear, to Christians, to intervene sometimes but not others? When someone is "healed" at Lourdes then is that God intervening?

And if prayers can not be answered because for free will, why did God say he would answer them? And why do people pray?

Firstly the more you help yourself the more God does not need to intervene because it's a self serving philosophy.

You go ahead and work hard and find that things get better for you and think it's God no it's not actually it is what they have done themselves God just gives them faith and belief not everyone feels good about themselves they sometimes need that extra motivation.

As to why people pray it gives them hope it makes them feel better and it makes them feel like they are doing something when they are in a situation beyond their control.

seeker

Was God in Auswitz ?

Yes He was, big time in the hearts of many believers . Their faith helped them survive the horror by not giving up and losing their minds, by having hope. Also, many of those who did die experienced true peace in their final moment thanks to their beliefs whether Jewish or Christian ( we mustn't forget it wasn't only the Jewish who died in Auswitz, countless Polish Christians as well )

How do I know this? Years ago I read a book that moved me deeply, basically a collection of testimonies by Christians who survived Auswitz ( shame I don't remember the exact title, still it was in Polish, don't know if there ever was an English translation).
The authors of the accounts spoke not only about their own faith and experiances but also of tose of their fellow sufferers ( hence my earlier mention of people dying in peace),so it gave a very comprehensive picture of what faith meant to those imprisoned.

One particularly moving story involved a Polish midwife or doctor who helped countless women in their horrendous predicament of being pregnant at that time.
Her strong faith and daily prayer enabled her to carry on.

Also, please google Maximilian ( or Maksymilian) Kolbe - am rubbish with links-
to find the most poignant example of faith in Auswitz.
In short, he was a Polish Catholic priest who at the age of 47 found himself imprisoned in the camp as a punishment for hiding a large number of Jews from Nazi persecution.
One day, some prisoners tried to escape and the guards decided to punish a number of men as an example to all. One of the chosen ones was Franciszek Gajowniczek ( can also be googled and info is in English).

Basically, the priest on hearing the man cry out for his wife and children, offered his life in exchange. Gajowniczek survived, was reunited with his family and only died in 1995! Saw him on Polish tv a few times , a man of great faith himself.
Kolbe was kept in a starvation bunker for a week before being given a lethal injection. He was with several other men to whom he brought great comfort as a priest. People reported hearing prayers and religious songs coming from the bunker for days.

Also, seeker...

Why do you keep insisting that not one single person has ever been healed by Jesus.
I do not believe you have done any research on the topic at all!

It is like a person saying they have never seen a Muslim woman in their life ( therefore they don't exist ) when in fact they have never left their front door. Do your web search , even you tube is good for this!

There is countless amount of reports , some very well documented and supported by medical staff, of sudden seemingly miraculous recovery after prayer, and of most serious diseases, cancer included. Even atheist doctors are left baffled in many cases and frantically trying to find other explanation.

You may, of course, refuse to believe such healings came from God, but many Christians do and it strenghtens their faith.

But many atheists also endured the death camps- are you saying that it was worse for them? As I said, I would have thought it would be worse for Christians - believing in a God that could have intervened, but did not must have been hear breaking.

And where was the free will fo the victims?

Oh, and there are plenty of tales of heroism by atheists.

Be careful what you wish for, UnquietDad I'd love it if you came back here in a couple of days saying "You know what......?!"

Also "Do not put the Lord your God to the test" is one of the 10 commandments, isn't it?

"Come on, god, mate. You used to be so good at all this magic, if we are to believe the stories. Trot out an old one to impress us!!"

No, of course not. I couldn't put it much better than Solidgold:

"Nope. And I find it utterly incomprehensible that educated, allegedly intelligent people do believe in gods. I can just about accept that clever people might have the view that there's Something (nebulous and unspecified) Out There though I'll only believe it myself when proper proof is demonstrated, but that people take this Bronze Age social control bullshit seriously in the 21st century is just weird. And fairly depressing."

I also find these evangalistic types rather creepy. I have acquaintances who are staunch believers but can never come up with a cogent argument as to why there might be a god.

I'm not doubting that religious people gain comfort, strength etc. from having a religion, however, just because they believe there is a god, doesn't make it fact.

TheFallenMadonna, I know that you are not one of those trying to indoctrinate our children. If all religious people were like you there probably wouldn't be an issue.

I'm not sure what "informed by religious belief" means. When I make decisions they are based on some knowledge. I might not have enough facts and I might have some of them wrong so I have to make a guess based on what I do know. That means I will often get it wrong, but I'm doing my best.

I find I'm often having to unlearn 'facts' I picked up as a child which were not facts at all. Once I know they are not facts I try to remember not to let them influence my thinking. Not always easy as things you were told when young tend to be accepted without question.

if "informed by religious belief" means based on facts like "It's ok to walk up to lions if I pray first" and "I can't have a blood transfusion because god doesn't like them" than decisions based on those would be unreliable in the same way as working out curtains if you thought there were 11 inches to a foot. (unless he did say/do those things of course)

If it means ideas like "being nice to people is probably a good idea" those are not facts and atheists have those too. How we arrive at those is another matter I suppose, but I can offer a rational basis for being nice to people unless there's a good reason not to be

Again you seeker

Just noticed your post at 12.01.
I believe God ALWAYS answers genuine prayer, ALWAYS listens to a person turning to him in sincerity.
But like someone said before, he knows what is best for us , he will not give you things that ultimately be not in your best interest.
That's why he did not answer my painful cries for myself and my boyfriend to get back together and marry (I was only 17 ) because He knew how totally unsuitable husband he would make and how a love 10 times greater was waiting just round the corner... He was in fact very kind not to answer my prayer !

He is like a parent who will refuse toddler a box of matches no matter how long the child cries for them and thinks what a great toy they would make.

Sometimes, he answers your prayers but at a different time to one you expect. Happened in my life many times over.

I wish I had more time to write.....

Btw I totally agree with SGB when she says about disagreeing with someone about religion but still liking them and agreeing with them on other subjects. It does happen a lot on MN and is both gratifying and occasionally infuriating (How dare they be so nice when they believe THAT!! )

He is like a parent who will refuse toddler a box of matches no matter how long the child cries for them and thinks what a great toy they would make

What was Nagasaki? I fear the toddler has the matches already...and the Legendary Parent has failed to step in..possibly due to not existing?

any attempt to use God to explain the existence of the unverse is a 'God of the gaps' approach, ie, 'I don't know' would be as good an answer (and a somewhat better one scientifically, as it doesn't go beyond the evidenc..you don't need a perfect being to create an imperfect sphere of existence)

meh - problem is faith dies not respond to reason, no-one on this thread is going to read a post and think 'actually, why don't i do DIY on sundays instead?' or 'why not stop pretending i believe in something that, when i think about, actually seems pretty daft.'...

seraphine - I'm sorry, but I have done a lot of reading around this subject because I a very interested in religion. And as far as I know, there has never been a properly proven case of anyone being healed by faith or prayer. If I am wrong, could you correct me? There have been spontaneous remissions, of course, but no more in Christians than in non Christians.

And if there is, how on earth do Christians explain that some people are healed and some not? How can it not be in the best interests of a person for their prayers to be answered if they re praying for their child to be healed of cancer?

Raised a Christian and stopped going to church etc as a teenager.

Have started again about ten years ago and still going.

I don't think religion can or is intended to explain everything and there are many questions I cannot answer but to counter that is my overwhelming and persistant sense of God and his desire to have a relationship with us.

In many ways I would find it easier to "remove the shakles" of church/organised religion. People are naturally flawed and so the church - a body of people - will naturally contain flawed people, albeit trying to become better people.

But for me it's like trying to ignore a chair or the trees or my husband (!!) for me God is a reality and I can choose to ignore him or follow him but i can't believe that He doesn't exist because my experience bears out beyond doubt that He does.

I appreciate this might not be everyone's experience and I don't intend to offend anyone but wanted to share my experiences a little.

God told me she doesn't give a fuck about humans, the capybaras are her favourites.

Hullygully, can you not see that writing this you are harming your cause, giving a very bad example of being an atheist.
If I was prone to generalizing I would say an atheist is obnoxious in speech and take delight in offending !
Just like SGB, sadly...

seraphine, I suspect Hullygully meant to be humorous (it made me laugh) but how can you be sure that she doesn't devoutly and sincerely believe that god told her that? shouldn't you respect her belief? unless you have proof god didn't say that?

I was given a sign. Why on earth should you assume I am an atheist??