Anti-Catholic feelings

[StrictlyKatty]

I'm pretty exhuasted right now with all the Anti-Catholic feeling on MN

A week never seems to go by without a thread about how Catholics should all feels ashamed about abuse (which we all do!) and how the Catholic Church should disband, that all Priests are kiddy fiddlers etc

Then, which really drives me mad, people with their threads about how to fake religion to get into Catholic school

There is now a thread about how frigging funny it is to see the Pope on a condom. I do wonder how funny people would find Mohammad on a sauasge... not very is my bet! Why can't respect for peoples religion be extended to Catholics?

I just wish people would understand that while noone feels that the RC church doesn't have a lot to apologise for it is not 100% rotten, the Pope isn't a Nazi and not every Priest signed up to spend time alone with little boys

DH thinks I should rise above it, but it hurts me! It has just made me cry seeing all the horrible things people have said about the church today.
Am I alone

chandra
as you refered to yourself as a catholic, its not an unreasonable assumption that you go to church sometimes, and that you contribute money when you do.

I am perfectly well aware of church pressure groups - they aren't having much effect though, are they? The catholic church has been notoriously conservative and resistant to change under this pope and the previous one.

The whole point is, that many people ARE disenchanted with the institution. And that the institution is doing all of christianity harm, and has done for many years.

The fact that the church defenders cite girls being allowed to serve at the altar, and similar ridiculously small "reforms" as progress, shows how badly out of touch the whole organisation is.
It needs to tackle some basic questions such as why it made rules that ensure that it is run by a group of lonely, sexually frustrated men, who don't have the balancing influence of women. Or men who are having relationships with each other, whilst preaching that homosexuality is wrong at the same time.
We have heard simply too many words like "on a journey" and "celibacy is difficult for some" whilst being assured that the celibate life in an exclusively male community is no problem for the majority. I have had my fill of unconvincing similes and metaphors without action.

These concerns are not new - they are as old as the protestant churches. I am that a poster further down this thread actually welcomes people leaving the catholic church over this matter, because then only the "true" followers will be left! This attitude ensures that the criminals will be safe into the next generation and beyond.

amidai
recently it was discovered that the priest at a parish near us was one of the ones that was moved around because he was abusing children, several times. There was a demonstration at the church at mass, by people who were furious that they had been lied to. I am not sure how it has developed since then, I heard that on the radio.
Stay away from church. Dont give money. Have rallies in Rome calling for changes in the organisation of the church, and resignations. Think what you can do!

Personally, I'm waiting for the next Pope, I thought the church had opened up a lot during JP II's time, but this new pope doesn't believe in democracy, so I am keeping my distance, doesn't mean that I despise the church for that, because there is more to being a catholic than the Pope and the criminal priests.

Basically, what you are telling me is to leave my beliefs because of what happened with those priests. No, I despise the behaviour, but I still believe that the great majority of priests are not like that, in the same way that I believe that most of my neighbours are good persons even when there might be some nasty people living relatively near to me.

Do you ask muslims to leave their religion because of the pain Osama Bin Laden caused? no. I'm just demanding the same courtesy to be extended to catholics.

Amidaiwish,

?By
StrictlyKatty
Sun 25-Apr-10 22:08:44

I do support the Pope. I personally believe that he has done what he has done because he thought it was for the best. I do not believe the Pope would EVER
want to see abuse continue. He has asked for silence after the abuse has taken place yes, because he wanted it dealt with with as little damage to the
church as possible. I do believe this was the wrong choice, but done with the right intensions.

The Pope is apologising for what the Church has done wrong, he wants change. He has admitted his personal mistakes and has asked for forgivness. The Catholic
church teaches forgivness, when someone asks for it and truly repents. If the Pope has done this and truly means it I am happy to support him.?

?By
StrictlyKatty
Sun 25-Apr-10 22:24:37

In fact only 25% of abuse cases have been reported as happening within the last decade. Rightly or wrongly it is very hard to prosecute for things which
happened 10 years ago. Can you imagine the conviction rates for abuse in this country of the majority of crimes were not reported for a decade?? It's horribly
low as it is without the adding presure of a decade or more of lost evidence.?

?By
StrictlyKatty
Sun 25-Apr-10 22:27:47

Would you rather everyone accused it just excommunicated without any evidence? Gathering evidence takes time which is why the Pope has tried to do things
behind closed doors so people are not judged for things they have not yet been proven guilty of a crime.?

?I'm sure noone wants
to see innocent people vilified that is why the Church looks for actually evidence you know that thing they use in law to actually make it fair
hmm

I'm sure people like you would have them all hung whether they had found evidence or not.?

?By
StrictlyKatty
Tue 27-Apr-10 10:06:14

You know there is such a thing a freedom of religious thought. I can believe whatever I want to frankly. I will defend my Church, as that is my choice.
It is no ones business but mine what I believe.?

Read those posts and tell me that doesn?t amount to someone defending the cover-up.

Chandra,

Comparing the Pope to Osama Bin Laden is utterly stupid.

Bin Laden is not the recognised head of the Muslim faith, he is not elected to his position by his peers and recognised and welcomed by world leaders.

The Pope IS the head of the Catholic church and chose to defend the reputation of his church rather then protect abused children.

I don't think Catholics should renounce their faith or stop attending church.

They just need to be vocal about how disgusted they are with the pope and Catholic hierarchy and they need to demand some change.

What is so hard about that?
why do some posters find it easier to defend the indefensible rather than criticise the guilty?

I did compare situations, not characters. But if we take it that way, should we all resign to our Britishness just because Tony Blair made a huge mistake with regards to Afghanistan? I preffer to think the guy was a fool who tricked us into believing there were weapons of mass destruction rather than thinking all Britain is condoning his behaviour.

For one last time, what I am against to is the stereotyping of the catholic people, as the stereotype feels somewhat obsolete.

Condoms anyone?

What???

Did you miss the mass demonstrations and anti war rallies?

An awful lot of people disagreed fundamentally with Tony Blair and shouted very very loudly about it.

He came in for masses and masses of hostile criticism from labour supporters.

Whay aren't the Catholics criticising the Pope as vocally?

Wannabe you are starting to seem a little obsessed with me, it's getting kinda creepy

Anyway, I did NOT at any point say the cover up was ok. What I said was that the Pope did what he did, wrongly, but not with the intensions of allowing abuse to continue.

'Do you ask muslims to leave their religion because of the pain Osama Bin Laden caused? no. I'm just demanding the same courtesy to be extended to catholics.'

Very true! There are many extreemist Muslims out there, 7/7 bombing etc. However we do not expect all Muslims to reject their faith do we? After all they were only the actions of a minority.

Total and utter hypocracy.

no you wouldn't ask muslims to reject their faith, but one would expect/hope they would want to distance themselves from the more extreme end of the religion, surely?

If you spoke to a muslim and they defended the actions of the 9/11 and 7/7 bombers, would you not have some reservations?

Similarly catholics shouldn't be expected to leave the church, but to at least speak out against the actions of the church rather than defending it?

The Osama bin Laden thing is bollocks. We are talking about the Pope - the head of the Roman Catholic church. Osama bin Laden doesn't hold an equivalent position in Islam

All Catholics believe that what has happened was wrong. However, that does not suggest the whole body is rotten just how the whole of Islam is rotten after the horrendous things some Muslims have done in the name if religion.

How can you distance yourself anymore from abuse? I did not commit any, I do not know anyone who did. I am horrified at what happened but I do not believe it was the majority and therfore will not abandon my Church.

So why should be abandon our Chruch when saying you are not an extreme Muslim would be enough on it's own for you Do you think Muslims should abandon their faith when they are matching through Wooten calling my DH a baby killer? Or is saying they don't believe that enough?

Total hypocracy as usual.

Islam isn't rotten

The two simply aren't comparable SK. We are talking about the hierarchy of our church. There isn't an equivalent structure in Islam, sothe analogy doesn't work. The authority of the church is massively important in our religion - how can we not consider it undermined?

Of course I consider that each individual who has commited a crime or help to conceal one has undermined the very core of the Church.

No Catholic is happy about what has happened but that does not mean that I don't consider the church worth saving. I think some of the things said on this thread have been deeply insulting to all Catholics tbh.

Do you think the Pope has undermined the very core of the church?

I don't see much that is offensive to ordinary Catholics on this thread. What is offending you?

You distance yourself from it by recognizing and acknowledging that those responsible for the abuse, and those responsible for covering up the abuse, be that by moving priests on to different churches, or by keeping the alagations quiet, or by withholding records from the authority were corrupt, and in the wrong, and should be removed from their posts. Even if one of them was the pope.

To not acknowledge that they were in the wrong is to defend their actions, and by defending the actions of those that covered up the abuse you are defending the actions of the abusers.

Wannabe for the 100th time. I have never said that their actions were not wrong. I have said that what the Pope has done was wrong and he has admitted as much himself.

However a comment you have made earlier today towards me is actually libelous and I am currently taking further action in regards to it so unfortunetly I would rather not have any further communication with you until the matter is resolved. I do not believe it is appropriate to make a personal comment of the type you have made towards me on a public forum without any evidence and it has caused me great distress.

of course you are.

I presume you'll be taking mn to court then? Given it's the website that is responsible not the individual. (swmnbn spring to mind?)

Good luck with that.

oh and it's libellous.

?people often have no idea of the legal implications of putting things up online. They think ? falsely ? that they can hide their identities and say things they wouldn?t say if they had to put their name on it.?

It's is not acceptable for people to use MN's to make offensive and deeply distressing comments towards other users that have no base in fact. There is nothing wrong will healthy, issue based debate. However when it decends into personal attacks it has gone too far.

I will happily defend the issues I believe it, but I will not allow my name to be connected with condoning criminal behaviour, which has happened today.

If Catholics want to make their unhappiness clear without giving up the church then there are lots of things they could do.

How about organising via MN the wearing of say a white ribbon/armband in church to show your disapproval. I know in reality most of you are not going to be waving banners etc, but that would be a discreet yet clear way to say "ok I'm here because my faith is the same, but I don't like what the church did/is doing"

strictlykatty - are you a bit tapped? seeking legal recourse - jesus shit on a stick!

"You know there is such a thing a freedom of religious thought. I can believe whatever I want to frankly. I will defend my Church, as that is my choice.
It is no ones business but mine what I believe.?

Y'know, Katty, you can't say something, and then threaten to sue people for saying that you said it.
Do you, to coin a phrase, know how the law works?

(Also, your first port of call needs to be MNHQ to complain about this 'personal attack', and have it removed.)

Can Mumsnet sue you for saying their posters are 'deeplay offensive to all Catholics', when Catholics have stepped up to disagree with you, and you can't actually quote any instances of this hideous offensiveness?

Ummm I never threatened to sue! I just complained to MNHQ for a very personal attack... I was just pointing out that you cannot just say anything, offensive, that you wish on the internet and expect to get away with it.