How can I reconcile with the church in the wake of abuse scandal?

[chibi]

I really feel like this is the last straw. It's funny, I knew that the church has done some crappy things in it's history, but somehow this latest sex abuse scandal has just clinched it for me- I don't think I want to go back. I feel sick and betrayed. It goes so far beyond 'well priests are human and fallible blah blah' the whole church itself knew and covered it up. Probably even the one who is pope now.

I feel like I can't go to mass anymore as it won't just be me being with god but will be me giving my assent and consent to all thus awfulness - do what you like, I don't mind, I'll come back no matter what.

I can't just shop around for a new branch of Christianity, to me that's like saying well if your parents are abusive just get new ones! It's them or nothing, really.

Fellow Catholics, how is all this affecting you? I feel cut adrift.

Please no anticatholic bile spewing I know exactly how awful my church is already.

I agree with you. I haven't been to church for a while now as I just can't get past the horrific stories and the covering up.

This may not make much sense but I feel that Jesus would feel as angry and disgusted, it is very wrong and goes against all principles therefore would not affect my personal relationship to "God", but the institution of the Catholic Church, yes, very difficult

i reconcile it like this

i have a faith in god.

as lots of people do.

i happened to be brought up catholic

others wern't

their religeons are not any less important than mine

but we all have faith

we practice that faith in different ways

i happen to practise mine the bells and smells way

my faith.

i cannot reconcile the catholic church and its anti condom stance

i cannot reconcile the catholic church and its anti gay stance

i cannot reconcile the catholic church with MOST of it's history, and whne people in real life want to have a debate about the catholic church - i throw up my hands and say "you win!" before i will even participate - becuase i can't defend it at all.

but its the way i know and the way i like to get close to god - which is the aim here.

i practice my faith through catholacism.

i am a pick n mix type, rigid catholics poke fun and non believers poke fun too.

i think st paul for instance, was a twat. i do not believe the bible ws anything more than a collection of stories put together for political purposes - hand chosen.

so its alla bout the faith

I know what you mean custardo but now I feel like I can't/don't want to set foot in a church anymore.

I don't know why this was the last straw as you mentioned there is no shortage of things to fall out with the church about. This scandal is no worse than a lot of other things that have happened. Yet somehow it resonates with me and I just feel like, enough.

chibi I could have written your post.

Have only been to mass a couple of times in the past few weeks, (whereas previously I only missed Sunday mass if sick). But the past few times I felt physically sick at the whole hypocricy of it all. Us there standing, kneeling, sitting, mouthing prayers, when all the time it was like the elephant in the room that there was so much evil in the church.

I even feel unsure of the things I brought my dc to believe. They are all teenagers now and have chosen not to go to mass, but previously I would have demanded they go for the Easter cermonies if they wanted Easter Eggs, , but now feel I won't this year.

Feel so lost, as everything I was brought up to believe in is gone, and at the age of 43 I'm like a lost child.

There is a lot of debate over on Catholic Answers about this issue- this thread might interest you .

Cut and pasted from that thread:

'Paedophiles are paedophiles; just because they ?gummed up? on scriptures doesn?t make them any less vile. There is nothing in the Catholic faith which promotes paedophilia; atleast, I haven?t come across anything like that. So let us not be embarrassed by what a group of filthy old men did to young children

The Cover-up: it was not so much a cover-up; it was a long drawn out investigation with a view to rehabilitate the offenders. In itself an admirable stance; afterall, we have grown up and realised that stoning every Tom, Dick and Harry to death only piles up bodies which soon start to stink

Yes, the Church should have handed the matter over to the lawful authorities. But in spiritual matters, the Church is also a lawful authority and that is where, I believe, the mistake was made. The Church also believed that they had an obligation to protect ?their own? and be merciful; not true; anyone who departs from the word of God to such a degree is not ?our own?

Rape is not a spiritual matter; it is physical violence of the worse kind with an element of control on part of the ego-maniac. And statistically, most rapes are carried out by men on women and young boys; they would not usually attempt rape on a grown man because rectifying the loss of ones front teeth and a broken nose is quite an expensive surgical procedure

My colleague is a wonderful woman but she carries this guilt for the entire faith. She is wrong, for she can only ever be responsible for her actions

My non-Catholic friends sometimes use the same argument and expect me to justify what the Catholic Church does or does not do. My answer to them is that I don?t run the Church and therefore I am not responsible for its' actions. I completely distance myself from this ?shared guilt? and try and concentrate on the word of God. Judge me on my actions and not on the actions of a sick group of paedophiles. My suggestion is that you do the same'

Maybe it is just a matter of having to overlook too much - I could overlook st Paul, overlook condoms, overlook the view on homosexuality, overlook collusion with nazis, overlook residential schools in Canada, overlook magdalene laundries...in the end the list is finally too big.

Aren't there some radical or semi-radical Catholic organisations now (ie non-homophobic, not obsessed with messing up other peopel's sex lives, aware that women are human, etc)If not, why not consider starting one? Because there must be shitloads of people who are, for whatever reason, loyal to the basics of Catholicism but appalled by the behaviour of the institution, and plenty of people have, for plenty of reasons, split off from the particular religious brand they were raised with and started a redesigned one. Because surely the bottom line is that it's about you and your deity and what you think he/she/it would like.

SGB- but then if it was a splinter group then it would no longer be Catholic- look at the society of St Pius X etc.

Lol at me starting my own branch of Catholicism!

It is hard to explain to someone who doesn't come from this background. More than a faith, it is/was culture. It feels contaminated now. I feel like I can't just go and be something else any more than I can be german or Peruvian or something (culturally not citizenship)

Or, I think you are referring to a mini repeat of the Reformation. There are lots of reasons why people would not want to be part of schismic (is that a word?)activities and yet feel disillusioned with the church.

I am feeling just the same.

For years I have followed Custardo's approach, chosen the bits I like, acknowledged what I got from it personally, but separated myself from much of the ideology, but now I feel this is too much, and there is no way back.

For an institution to put it's own reputation and interest above what is right and the protection of children and vulnerable people goes beyond the pale.

It is rotten to the core, it is anti love and everything else that I believed christainity was meantt to represent.

I now beleive that if Jesus returned he would despise the catholic church, just in the same way he despised the pharisees and the hyocrisy and self interst of the Jewish church at the time.

My issue now is that my kids are in a catholic school so I feel I have made a commitmet for them. I think I will stay with the church, thuogh it pains me, until DS2 has done his holy communion, only because his brother had the whole sheebang and fuss, so it seems unfair to take that away from him.

Luckily the way catholisim is presneted in the school is the caring loving side of christainity and the children are sheilded from the real corruption of the organistaion we have chosen to make them a part of.

Probably no consolation but my RC friends are struggling with the same issue, so you are not alone. From being regular weekly attenders for years they have only been a couple of times this year I think.

I just keep reminding them that the most important thing is their personal relationship with God, and nothing that's happened changes that.

I'm CofE & my Church is "anglo-catholic" - so much so that my friends have been a couple times recently & said there is very little difference in the liturgy etc (We even do "bells & smells" ). They chose to take communion, but I know that's a personal decision depending on your views on transubstantiation etc.

I'm not suggesting changing your branch of Christianity permanently (and I don't think my friends intend to either), just sometimes we all need some "quite time" in Church with God (I know I do), and finding a local CofE anglo-catholic Church in the short term might help?

I do feel for RCs at the moment

sorry this is just ramblings, probably didn't help much...

OK I am bowing out of the thread as I don;t know enough to be able to offer more advice. It is hard lines on decent people who happen to be 'culturally' Catholic.

SolidGoldBrass- I would just like to say, I think that is the most sensible comment you have made with regard to religion. I don't agree with it but I appreciate it as it lacks the patronising tone your posts normally have on this subject. Thank you.

Shit the kids I hadn't even thought about that as the are so young. How can I get them to do first communion now? I hate the idea of them growing up 'godless' (I say this Tongue in cheekish). I had the idea to bring them up in our faith and then when they were old enough to choose what they wanted to do, let them, and if that meant they rejected the church or converted to another faith so be it.

It feels so wrong to not introduce them to the faith but more wrong to take them now I guess.

Normally when I am this conflicted in spiritualmatters I would talk about it with a priest.

Ha ha bloody ha

(that referred to your earlier post btw)

Chibi;

How do feel knowing Hitler was raised as a Catholic..?

..Did that ever put you off..?

Thank you for trying sgb it is quite fraught and incomprehensible I imagine

Chibi- unless you have reson to believe that the clergy in your parish were somehow inplicated in the whole sorry affair, I don't see any reason why you can't do as you have planned?

What difference does that make dp? This is about the church as an institution not the sins/crimes of individual members

implicated

no falafel, i don't think my priest was implicated, I just don't really want to have anything to do with the church or its representatives at the moment at all really.

Chbi I couldn't help ing at 'Shit the kids I hadn't even thought about that.'

Sorry.

I know, it's a hard one. As I said though the way catholism is presented in schools though is a very lovely 'think of others and be nice' type christainity so not too controversial, and we have always had honest discussions about what we believe what others believe and how you have to make your own mind up.

The problem is that is does or will require a certain commitmet to going to mass, going along with confession, first communion and confirmation etc.

Ds1 has confirmation next year, I am secretly hoping that he refuses (they pretend it's optional but in reality no one opts out) but he is a very compliant if irreligious child.