How do I tell my friends I don't want to do the Alpha course?

[BumperliciousVsTheDailyHate]

Some lovely friends of mine have just asked me and DH if we want to do the Alpha Course. I'm not completely adverse to it but I don't particularly want to at the moment for several reasons:

1. I work 9 hour days, and by the time I get done with dinner and putting 2 yo DD to bed I get about 2 hours before having to go bed, the last thing I want to do is go and be sociable, articulate and thoughtful
2. I'm an atheist, though I was into religion and church until I was a teen then got completely put off it after my mum dragged me a along to a born-again Christian church.
3. We couldn't get a babysitter, though I could go on my own, I just really don't want to
4. I don't think it would make me change how I feel, I don't want it to change how I feel, I am perfectly happy as an atheist. I think it would be a waste of time.

Can anyone help me let my friends down in a nice way, that doesn't belittle the way they feel. We have discussed religion, and they know how I feel. They are very strong in their beliefs and very up front about them, though not in a pressurising way. They are really lovely and I don't want to offend them but to be honest I struggle to muster up the energy to make conversation with my husband at the moment. But I need a better reason than 'I can't be bothered'. I'm not adverse to the Alpha Course per se, I have seen very good reviews on it, but it smacks a little of brain washing to me.

What do I say?

SGB you sound like an A level sociology manual.

OldLady most of what Crist said went right against both the social and cultural norms of his time, and against our animal selves. Here is Dawkins on Christ in his essay 'Atheists for Jesus'

'Human super niceness is a perversion of Darwinism because, in a wild population, it would be removed by natural selection. It is also, although I haven't the space to go into detail about this third ingredient of my recipe, an apparent perversion of the sort of rational choice theory by which economists explain human behaviour as calculated to maximize self-interest.'

Pofaced: why thank you

I did A level sociology [the shame]

ravenAK, no they wouldn't kick you off

No they wouldn't kick you off Raven, at least in my experience. As for trying to convert, well of course Alpha is geared to giving people the information so they are able to make an informed choice, or not - there should be no pressure. Yes, we love to see peoples lives changed through it, but would never be so disrespectful as to force anything.
Of course, I cannot speak for all my fellow Alpha leaders, and no doubt there are some who don't follow up the spirit of the thing, and get it sadly wrong. If you come across this, I can only apologise. But generally they're pretty laid back. Have fun

Saw a great Einstein quote the other day:

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear ...of punishment and hope of reward after death."

yes but christ repeatedly says that you should follow his teachings not in order to get a reward or a punishment, but because it is the right thing to do. The church have used the reward/fear thing as a tool for control, but Christ would be rebelling against the church today if he were alive, as he was rebelling against the religion of the time [to a degree]

So why do so many Christians tell people that they want to save them because they don't want them to go to hell? This would seem to be hanging on to the "fear/punishment" side of things rather than anything more revolutionary...

Why have Christians put unmarried mothers into covent homes and have taken their children away from them? Why have christians forced gay people into 'healing' sessions? Because they are wrong.

The church has historically been a corrupt organisation. Individuals though, within the church, have followed Christ's teachings. If you want a more accurate representation of Christ's teachings, go to the Iona Community or to a Franciscan community. Or have the good fortune to meet one of the many christians who do not behave in the way routinely described by atheists here.

Yes, but they think they are right. And doing things in the name of god. With this is mind, it is quite difficult to tell good Christians from the bad ones. And so you can forgive atheists for just switching off and not wanting anything to do with the lot of them.

Well absolutely it frustrates me too, the persistent misrepresentation of Christ in the Church. But the truth is out there.

I think UQD that many Christians are stuck in the post-enlightenment way of thinking that makes Christianity all about what happens after death, when in fact the original teaching of the bible/early church makes it so much more about life now - like the children's society slogan, 'we believe in life before death.' I don't want to go into a whole heaven/hell discussion (well at this moment anyway, it would take far too long) but just reiterate what pofaced has said, that there are individuals (and increasingly some churches) that follow the teachings of Christ, and make it more about life now, about justice, about changing lives in the present. This is where the message of Christ is so centred; he didn't have an awful lot to say about the afterlife, in fact, but a lot to say about loving people and about setting them free. This, combined with his death and resurrection (and without these, as I said earlier, it would just be one more 'good' person') makes following Christ into a revolutionary, radical path, not a slushy ramming-people-over-the head one. When I look at some Christians I have to agree with Brian McLaren that Jesus would be embarassed to be associated with the name of Christianity in many cases. This makes me angry. We should be the ones reflecting God's concern for the poor and for all, and not putting up with all the explotation in our and other societies. OK, so you can say you don't have to be a Christian to think like this, and you'd be right to say that. But for me it's the combined thing...not simply the message, but the hope, the victory over death, the promise of the renewal of our world. But if all we're worried about is 'saving souls from hell' we're dangerously missing the point.

And I apologise for some of the terrible grammar in that post

But UQD, what exactly makes a "good Christian"? Jesus said in one of his parables that it was the man who beat his breast and asked God to "have mercy on me, a sinner", in contrast to the man who prayed conspicuously in the open and thanked God he wasn't like the other man. So it seems good works alone are not quite what God is looking for. Humility, love and an awareness that we have all fallen short of God's perfection are more the thing.

Can anyone explain what they mean by "the church"? Are you talking about the Church of England, all denominations in the UK, or the worldwide church of all believers?

Well, I don't think by 'the church' any of us here just mean the nice people who go to the parish church on a Sunday and do their shopping in M&S

Sorry for flippant reply to serious question but the Bishop of somewhere started it. Not WWJD but 'Where would Jesus shop?' .

The church - what I mean by it depends on the context. Anything from 'two or three gathered together' to all of Christs followers on earth, and sometimes a particular organisation or building.

Grimma, good old DM heh?
Yep the church - contextual. Usually I mean the church universal ie the body of Christ. Certainly don't mean a building, sometimes I mean a specific gathering.
Tinfoil - yes it's not just down to good works. That's where the Christian faith differs to others. It's about grace in the face of sinfulness. However it is made quite clear that good works will result from accepting that grace, and if they don't there is something wrong. It's where that happens that gives Christianity a bad name and falls short of what it should be.

It's not for me to say what makes a good Christian when it seems Christians can't even agree on it themselves!

But my criteria for being a good person are broadly things like being kind, being tolerant, treating other people the way you'd want to be treated, etc. ... so no reason why this shouldn't apply equally to Christians and atheists. Simply for the purpose of all getting along in this life (because this life is all there is) and not for some reward in a putative afterlife.

UQD, no reason at all why it shouldn't apply to all. I think I said earlier that we all have an inherent knowledge of some form of moral code, whether or not we choose to exercise it is a different matter. I would never argue that Christians are better people than anyone else, but I would argue that as Christ followers we have even more responsibility to put into practise what Jesus taught and therefore to be almost radical in our actions. The difference is, and this is where we differ, is that we believe this life isn't all that there is, but that doesn't stop it being important and crucial for us to 'get along in it'. Even more so, in fact.

I can see why it's as important, but not why it should be more so.

Well I suppose it goes back to the concept of our lives continuing beyond death, and what that means. If I believe, as the bible sets out, that Jesus will come back and God will restore the creation to perfection, what we do with the creation now has consequences in eternity, and similarly how we relate to people has far reaching effects because ultimately we do believe there is that aspect of being 'saved' - the terminology may be unhelpful in this era, but the concept remains the same. If, as I do, Christians feel passionately certain that God has done what we believe he has in Jesus, it's our responsibility to make this known; in our lives, in our actions, in our words. So this is where it becomes more important - not at all to belittle the good actions of many people, athiest and otherwise - but to gain something more, in the present and in eternity. Really should be getting on with some work...

Is it really a shock that Christians disagree with each other? Blimey.

Anyway I would agree with everything you said in your last 2 posts MadHair, except to say that I don't think Christ's Resurrection is the only thing that separates him from other 'good' men. His teachings stand alone as an extraordinary and revolutionary contribution to human development. You can be passionate about them and still have an open mind, a sense of not knowing, about the mysteries around his life [his birth, his death/resurrection, the miracles]

Ah well now you're talking about John and Revelations MadHair, that is a whole new thread