How do I tell my friends I don't want to do the Alpha course?

[BumperliciousVsTheDailyHate]

Some lovely friends of mine have just asked me and DH if we want to do the Alpha Course. I'm not completely adverse to it but I don't particularly want to at the moment for several reasons:

1. I work 9 hour days, and by the time I get done with dinner and putting 2 yo DD to bed I get about 2 hours before having to go bed, the last thing I want to do is go and be sociable, articulate and thoughtful
2. I'm an atheist, though I was into religion and church until I was a teen then got completely put off it after my mum dragged me a along to a born-again Christian church.
3. We couldn't get a babysitter, though I could go on my own, I just really don't want to
4. I don't think it would make me change how I feel, I don't want it to change how I feel, I am perfectly happy as an atheist. I think it would be a waste of time.

Can anyone help me let my friends down in a nice way, that doesn't belittle the way they feel. We have discussed religion, and they know how I feel. They are very strong in their beliefs and very up front about them, though not in a pressurising way. They are really lovely and I don't want to offend them but to be honest I struggle to muster up the energy to make conversation with my husband at the moment. But I need a better reason than 'I can't be bothered'. I'm not adverse to the Alpha Course per se, I have seen very good reviews on it, but it smacks a little of brain washing to me.

What do I say?

I should say, not every single atheist on this thread but of course I know that now

I think the thing that trips everyone up in debates like this is that a) the majority of people don't really know the Bible or how any/other religions work at grass roots level, and b) the majority of people don't really know what atheism is, or rather, isn't.

And then we all get into using shorthand, when we mean 'my mate who is a fundamentalist Christian loon' or 'the religious right in America' or 'Christopher Hitchens'.

Personally I am quite happy with the idea that faith is inexplicable, and let's get on with life....Though I admit to being nonplussed that no-faith is hard to grasp. But that's just lack of experience.

Its inevitable there are more 'assumptions' made about Christianity because that's what we tend to have experience of. I tend to assume that most christians are somewhat like I used to be and therefore not fundamentalist or inherently stupid.

But then, having come to the conclusion that I was deluded back then, I tend to assume the same of those who still believe. Which probably sounds horribly arrogant but is meant in more (to borrow the most inappropriate phrase possible "There but for the grace of god go I"

hmmm - I have't, over 5 years on MN, seen a thread where christians join to state how stupid atheists are /how pushy they are about making others believe the same/how corrupt they are at a basic level or even how they can't understand why they are atheists. I can't see anyone having trouble understanding why some people are atheists. As I have said before, doubt, and the possibility that there is no God, is an inextricable part of the nature of faith. Unless you are very evangelical.

Some people do have trouble understanding what atheism really is (e.g. they think it's a faith, they think it's Satanism, etc.) - not so much here but in the USA - and why people would want to be one. It was only 20 years ago, let's remind ourselves, that a sitting US President had the gall to say that he didn't consider atheists to be citizens "as this is one nation under God."

pofaced, you may have a point that Christians here don't start threads saying "blimey, atheists are dim" or "Who'd be an atheist" and the like - but believe me, I've seen it elsewhere.

There are also the Grauniad's two bulwarks of intolerance and general crap, Madeleine Bunting and Theo Hobson, whose mission seems to be to insult the intelligence of as many atheists as possible in the shortest possible space, and then to wonder why they get crucified (no pun intended) by erudite detractors in the Comments.

No po ... not many MNers would dare suggest something so self evidently false as that atheists are stupid ... or pushy really, considering the OP of this thread that would be kettle-blacking.

But there have been times when the views of certain more acerbic atheists seem to be assumed to be representative.

I think everything that Grimma and UQD have said could be put the other way..and please bear in mind uqd that you've said Christians are loonies.

I was reacting really strongly to a dismissive and patronising approach. I was at a Buddhist thing today and I didn't feel the need to disabuse anyone of their misconceptions. I was bewildered by some of it but, you know, a profound faith deserves some kind of respect and recognition. I didn't assume they were all stupid, I thought each one must have had an internal dialogue which must have led them down this path.

I'm fed up with the dismissive, self-righteously hostile and patronising approach on mn and wanted to turn it on its head. I think after this thread I would suggest that some atheists are wrong-headed and aggressive. No, they're not representative, just as aggressive evangelists don't represent me. It's so lazy to tar everyone with the same brush.

If I've read that right and you think my attitude is dismissive, self-righteously hostile and patronising then I'm being a seriously bad communicator.

Most of what all of us say can be turned the other way (TBH I thought I was the one inverting about 'assumptions' in the recent posts - oh well!)

What was the Buddhist thing, if you don't mind me asking? (DH sort of 'does' buddhism without having a scrap of faith in anything - its kinda interesting!)

no I don't grimma but i don't want to say oh it was so and so and then that other meanie

but no, not you at all, not at all

it was right special

the next D a l a i L a m a -- Q and A

I think you can do Buddhism in that way

I garnered a feeling of: whatever comes your way you have to find your peace with it, do your best with it, choose to be happy and spread peace by finding your own peace, because if you fight your destiny you will sow disharmony around you

very interesting

do should have been "do"

doh

Oh good

Oh I've had lots of MN discussions about what atheism is (rather than why I am an atheist) and more specifically, what it isn't. I think there's a fair amount of 'oh they think X' where X = something vaguely offensive about morality or breadth of thought.

I can't see atheists being pushy because: what would they push? There is nothing to DO if you don't have faith. (OTOH, how many awful threads have there been where people blindly refuse to accept that some people don't want their children to be told at school that Bible stories are truth and God exists?)

Having said all that, I think we are equally-matched in the insulting/ribbing stakes... It's not like it is HARD to be atheist in this country!!

not true at all prunerz

but we are now on this thread

Is this where I have to talk about pink fairies or something?
And you have to tell me that you are praying for me?

or we could just hold hands under a rainbow and sing to save the world

love, peace, light and trebles all round

well of course some atheists are stupid! Not because they are atheists, but because, well, some people are stupid, whether they believe in God or not. Not believing in God doesn't automatically confer some innate gift of intelligence. Some christians are stupid too [ok quite a lot especially in America]. But to summise, and state repeatedly, that all Christians are stupid because they believe in God, and have little understanding of the rigorous intellectual and philosophical discourse of theology, is annoying, and incorrect. That's all.

Yes pofaced you're right. What often seems to come over on MN and other forums is that you have to be daft to have a belief, often compared to the flying spaghetti monster or its ilk. However, this is certainly not representative of most athiests I know in RL, some yes but mostly people are calm and collected and just getting on with their lives. There will always be the exceptions, and I think if we have any kind of strong faith we should be able to cope with this type of bashing. I do object to the insinuation that I am stupid/loony/deluded, but it's not going to stop me from going down the path I am on - because it's far too great

Yes, being stupid is not exclusive to either believers or unbelievers. But some people are always demanding 'respect' for their superstitions when they mean 'special treatment' ie the right not to be disagreed with whatever crap they are coming out with, because being superstitous is 'special'.
Now in general, daily interaction with people, I certainly don't go and bother them about their particular beliefs and tell them it's a load of rubbish. Even the most hardline of atheists don't run into believers' ritual spaces and shout 'Bollocks' mid-incantation, or picket outside (with the possible exception of any cult HQ that has been doing something specifically unacceptable of course).
I do have quite a few friends who believe in some woo/bollocks or other and that's up to them, I am only rude to individual believers when they either assert something offensively ridiculous or won't take 'It's not for me, thanks' as an answer.
I just find the idea of bleieving in sky pixies or whatever woo/bollocks brand people prefer to be fundamentally fucking ludicrous.
But I feel the same about sports fandom, conspiracy theorists, right wing politics and those who reckon Coldplay are profound. DO what you like, just don't expect me not to find it ridiculous - and don't expect not to be laughed at on a public debating forum or when you (generic you) start agitating to assert your 'rights' by interfering with other people.

It is a fundamental part of SGBs belief system that its ok to use terms like 'woo'. It would be gravely disrespectful to her to object to this.

I quite like the word 'woo'. Think I will adopt it.
I'm quite happy to be laughed at SGB. I'm certain enough in my faith to not worry too much about that kind of thing. So you can think I believe woo if you like, and I can secretly think that it's woo not to believe

"and please bear in mind uqd that you've said Christians are loonies"

Chapter, verse and context?

I use "woo" to cover all kinds of irrational stuff. Religion, belief in fairies, crystal healing, reiki, mind-reading... basically everything debunked by the likes of James Randi, Derren Brown and Penn & Teller. In fact, P&T have a better word for it.

So it's, er, difficult, to say the least, to use the word to cover non-belief. Because non-belief isn't irrational like that. If it is, you then have to explain why we should believe in one god over all the others, and why yours makes sense and the thousands of others don't - which is just "special pleading."

pofaced - completely agree

It's all context, isn;t it? We are SO much part of the you-can-choose-to-be generation, we forget that not everyone lives like that, not everyone dismisses faith (for example) as being on a par with pixie-belief.

I find it really hard to accept that some of the amazing people I know have this profound faith. I have to tell myself, this isn't a choice, it's not a lifestyle. I do think we have been brainwashed into seeing every aspect of our lives as a feature in a Sunday supplement.

I don't believe because, well, I just don't. It's not there for me. Same as it IS there for some. There is plenty that's interesting in both directions.

I do think though that laissez-faire attitude is a luxury, because I am British.