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Original poster

Ok, so.. What is SOOOO wrong with abstinence and monogamy? (Fully expect to be flamed) but actually want to know....

38 replies

macmam · 03/04/2009 23:24

Really want to have an actual discussion about why people think that the Pope is wrong with his abstinence/anti-condom stance as regards HIV/Aids.

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Pruners · 03/04/2009 23:42

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Pruners · 03/04/2009 23:42

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BoysAreLikeDogs · 03/04/2009 23:44

What pruners said

UnquietDad · 03/04/2009 23:45

I don't know about you, but when I want advice on sex, the first person I always think of asking is a 70-something ex-Nazi bloke who lives in a closeted ivory tower in the middle of Rome and has never in his life had a shag. I mean, he's got to be the world authority, right?...

Original poster
macmam · 03/04/2009 23:47

So why not encourage "old fashioned abstinence" since it is 100% effective.

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Pruners · 03/04/2009 23:48

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UnquietDad · 03/04/2009 23:50

Well, it's never really caught on.

And also, Aids isn't going anywhere for a while. And as presumably "abstinence" means "no sex before marriage", some people will, eventually, be having sex with people who are HIV+. They'll just happen to be married to them. And without condoms they will risk becoming infected, as a marriage licence isn't a protective item.

Pruners · 03/04/2009 23:51

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Pruners · 03/04/2009 23:52

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solidgoldshaggingbunnies · 03/04/2009 23:52

I think that if people want to abstain from sex they are fully entitled to do so. However I think people who are hung up on making other people abstain from sex are sexually dysfunctional themselves. Sex is nice.

Original poster
macmam · 03/04/2009 23:57

He DID have to join the Hitler youth, through no choice of his own. Everyone in his age group did.
Recent research carried out at Harvard University found that in areas where condom distribution was promoted there had never been a corresponding drop in HIV/Aids infection. So tell me again how promotion of condom useage helps the people of Africa..

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Pruners · 04/04/2009 00:00

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Original poster
macmam · 04/04/2009 00:04

Read today that abortion rates in Wales were at a 5 year high. We have never had more sex ed/contraception advice available and still the very thing that legislaters in '67 said would decrease has increased. I am of the opinion that the belt and braces approach to sex ed and family planning is getting us absolutely no-where. I am naive.

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OldLadyKnowsNothing · 04/04/2009 00:05

It is, of course, true that abstinence before marriage and monogamy thereafter would reduce STIs to nothing, if everyone co-operated. However, millions of years of evolution/God has given us strong drives to have sex, and it's (meant to be) an intensely pleasurable experience, so in the face of that condoms make sense.

It has never seemed right to me (I am a humanist, btw) that "God" would give us such wonderful playthings as genitalia, and then tell us not to use them, or only to use them in very strictly defined circumstances. You can chunter on all you like about free will, temptation and all that, but to me that just seems perverse.

solidgoldshaggingbunnies · 04/04/2009 00:12

Don't forget that 'abstinence' is no protection against rape, macmam.

Original poster
macmam · 04/04/2009 00:13

Ok using condoms is great at preventing HIV/AIDS but what about when they come off or burst or you think hell I used one the last time I'll be ok this time or the whole tacit acceptance of sex 'on tap' no matter what or who or whatever the consequences... disposable pleasure seeking irrespective of who gets hurt in process..

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Original poster
macmam · 04/04/2009 00:16

Solid, do rapists think of using condoms?

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Original poster
macmam · 04/04/2009 00:16

Solid, do rapists think of using condoms?

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Quattrocento · 04/04/2009 00:16

Don't believe that abstinence is an option for many african women. Or young girls come to that.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 04/04/2009 00:18

Some rapists do use condoms (in this country) to help avoid detection via DNA.

Have you seen the news from Afghanistan, macmam?

Pruners · 04/04/2009 00:19

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Original poster
macmam · 04/04/2009 00:22

Not such a loon actually as far as his research is concerned. Its all fact. He himself may be a bit odd...though..

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KayHarkerIsPlayingWithMitchell · 04/04/2009 00:25

It's a fabulous ideal, macmam. The problem is, it's all well and good to 'promote it', but even Christians with a strong internal motivation to do it struggle.

Expecting those who don't share that strong internal motivation is always going to be limited in success.

Pruners · 04/04/2009 00:30

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Original poster
macmam · 04/04/2009 00:33

But with serious motivation i.e to prevent infection, wouldn't it be in peoples best interests to promote abstinence. As for sex out with marriage, the church doesn't 'legislate' on that because its all a 'sin'.

Condoms within marriage are a no-no and anyway if you love your partner and if you know/suspect you're infected isn't it a greater love to abstain from infecting them....
And if you live in a HIGH risk area to get tested and then take it from there....

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