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Original poster

catholics - what do you think when the Church hierarchy say something really homophobic etc

117 replies

time4tea · 18/01/2009 09:09

I'm a practising Catholic - and a sincere believer in Jesus' message of compassion for others (80s liberation theology I suppose). But although I have a lot of respect for my amazing parish priest, who has so many good things to say about life and faith, and enjoy going to mass, I find it harder and harder to deal reconcile this with some of the Church's teaching about contraception, HIV/AIDS prevention, abortion, and homsexuality. Plus of course, a lot of the cover-ups over sexual abuses against children by priests...

how do you deal with this? it is "their" church and they make the rules. I keep wanting to just leave or disassociate myself from the whole thing but in my profoundest heart, I love attending mass, and see so many other things that are a source for good. But the reality is that the stuff I am concerned about is what is really pushed on in terms of public messages from the Vatican.

is anyone else concerned about this sort of thing...?

OP posts:
MrsMattie · 18/01/2009 20:47

Thats nice for them. Some of us question these things, though. We like to think them through and not bury our heads in the sand for the sake of 'getting along nicely'.

ladyjuliafish · 18/01/2009 20:50

But where does it leave you if you unreservedly accept everything the Pope says and then it changes. There have been some fairly major changes in the church. I am sure my idea of a 'good Catholic' is different from a parishioner during the rule of the harlots or during the crusades for example. I think we owe it to our faith to question the hierarchy.

mersmam · 18/01/2009 20:50

Don't think Pope Benedict would be too happy about that though tumtetum
I just think that modern culture has far too much of a 'do what makes you feel good and don't worry about the consequences' attitude. I prefer to believe that right and wrong do exist.

Heathcliffscathy · 18/01/2009 20:52

there is an incredibly interesting programme about the history of christianity on c4 +1 at the moment...

the original message was totally subverted.

the history of rome and the papacy is very interesting.

mersmam · 18/01/2009 20:53

Ladyjuliafish, the church has made a few mistakes and yes we should question its leaders. Personally though, I think Pope Benedict is great (I think most of his unpopularity is due to the media drawing his quotes out of context). He is not saying anything that the church hasn't been saying for 2000 years.

MrsMattie · 18/01/2009 20:53

I couldn't watch it. Michael Portillo just creeps me out.

combustiblelemon · 18/01/2009 20:53

The current pope is, IMO, a triumph of dogma over compassion.

mersmam · 18/01/2009 20:59

He's not a 'people's pope' as much as JP II I agree - but what he says is definitely the truth! His book 'Jesus of Nazareth' is pretty good, anyone who reads it would find he has amazing compassion.

tumtumtetum · 18/01/2009 20:59

ladyjuliafish I was just thinking about that - when they suddenly decided that limbo didn't exist after all - which was basically bowing to what people wanted. I thought it a bit odd - I mean either it exists or it doesn't - and how could you have got it wrong if you've got the hotline to god? If you've got that wrong, what else may change in the future.

So it is not absolute.

The other problem is that if you said to all the "half catholics" that they had to have a good think and adhere to everything, or leave, then most people would leave. I'm not sure the pope would be too keen on that either

MrsMattie · 18/01/2009 21:23

pmsl@ 'when they decided limbo didn't exist;

they just be right, eh?

MrsMattie · 18/01/2009 21:23

just = must

tumtumtetum · 18/01/2009 21:44

So is the current idea that unbaptised children don't go to limbo incorrect?

"They" are the vatican - I'm confused I thought that you thought that it was the vatican's teachings that should be followed?

MrsMattie · 18/01/2009 21:45

Are you talking to me? I'm an atheist, love. I think it's all...um...highly unlikely.

tumtumtetum · 18/01/2009 21:49

oops sorry thought you were mersmam!

Thought it was a slightly odd response but still felt the urge to argue!

Really shouldn't get on threads like this but just can't help myself

MrsMattie · 18/01/2009 21:54

lol

Original poster
time4tea · 18/01/2009 22:02

so many interesting responses. I wasn't expecting much feedback...

TumTeTumTum - I had the discussion about limbo when talking to the parish priest about baptism of my DS1. My DH (atheist) laughed at me saying "ooh, when did limbo go out of the window?" (while miming something being thrown). Very thoughtful parish priest explained that mothers especially, and the church as a whole, demanding that limbo was not the right idea at all about what happens to unbaptised babies after death. I remember the same thing about finding out that the pope ruled the thing about papal infallibility in the 1830s.

Which I suppose echoes what some people say about people like me either leaving completely or joining a pressure group.

All churches, whatever they say, are human creations anyway, and similarly flawed. Perhaps it is the catholic way too seek an absolute answer! and ponder about it too much. no doubt I'll take the religion test and find myself 100% humanist after all.

thanks again for sharing thoughts. it's helped me chew it all over a bit more

OP posts:
tumtumtetum · 18/01/2009 22:07

time4tea I think there has been a really good range of response on here from people who follow the catholic faith literally and those who are comfortable turning a blind eye to certain aspects.

Have you tried talking to your priest about these things? He might be able to help you. It would be a shame to leave something you so obviously love but equally if you can't stomach some aspects and you can't ignore them...

I'm sure your priest will be able to help actually, maybe that is the way forward

mersmam · 18/01/2009 22:08

Have just come back to this... as far as I'm aware the church has never officially recognised 'limbo'. Current view (from Catholic encyc online):

''It may confidently be said that, as the result of centuries of speculation on the subject, we ought to believe that these souls enjoy and will eternally enjoy a state of perfect natural happiness; and this is what Catholics usually mean when they speak of the limbus infantium, the "children's limbo''

  • which sounds OK to me!
ladyjuliafish · 18/01/2009 22:09

Apparently I am 100% Orthodox Quaker

MrsMattie · 18/01/2009 22:10

Oh you have to laugh, dont you? Must get off this thread.

mygreatauntgriselda · 18/01/2009 22:25

Time4tea - if you spoke to my priest he would probaby agree with you anyway - he is an ex-accountant, only been a priest a few years and very progressive (not that accountants are particularly known for being progressive - even less so than catholic priests probably..) .

tumtumtetum · 18/01/2009 22:29

mygreatauntgriselda priests aint what they used to be.

The priest at my local catholic church is...

wait for it...

married!

How on earth can that be?????

(Well apparently he converted that's how but still )

ladyjuliafish · 18/01/2009 22:33

Our last priest stole £50000 from the diocese apparently. It was before my time though.

MrsMattie · 18/01/2009 22:35

Th priest at our local church is a nazi and a bigot.

mygreatauntgriselda · 18/01/2009 22:45

tum tum - thats cheating (getting wed first)