King Charles is now not Defender of faith

[Smokeywater]

King Charles is now not Defender of the Faith for Church of England Christian -
in the Sovereign Grant Report 2025-26
Where last year’s report described the King as “Head of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith,” this year’s version reads: “His Majesty is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and protects the space for Faith within the multi-faith nation.”

Doesnt seem a great move to me - he has a historical role as King and messing about with that role diminishes it imv - if you can just change things overnight why not change other things like being crowned in a big carry on by the Archbishop of Canterbury - William can just give that a miss and have a chinwag with a few other religious leaders.

It is founded in both racism and anti-semitism.

Christians are murdered by Islamists. Jewish peoples are murdered by Islamists. Infidels are murdered by Islamists.

By the same token, Islamists tend lose their lives, not by murder, but generally due to acts of defence by the people who Islam's stated wish is to eradicate from the face of the earth.

@Smokeywater you say "And he will have angered Christians with this watering down of his role." How has he watered down his role? He has not stepped back in any way from his role at the Church of England, he is just looking to include other faiths - including the multitudes of other Christian faiths that exist in this country! Surely, he has just strengthened his role with all the Christians of the UK?

@Loobylooisblue Got it. So it's not actually about whether or not a belief runs counter to the law, it's more about how much you personally feel that belief is justified and/or you agree with it.

I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion from my post of 13.17.
Maybe you should try reading it again ?

Over 50 k Christian denominations in the world today. Really, if there was no division even among Christians, there would only be one denomination.

There was a thread on here for the past few weeks (now full), where even Christians of the same denomination did not agree together on what their own denomination believes.

I mean when you get into the nitty gritty of stuff in the Bible where they don't have an agreed position.

No, he has not strengthened his role with Christians. He seems to favour Islam these days, rather than Christianity. He's had a long-standing association with Islam, some of it due to his concern for the environment, as he perceives Islam has a deep respect for nature, moreso than we do in the West, and a more spiritual view of the world. Charles seems to want to integrate faiths together in a way that's simply not feasible and in my mind he's quite deceived, but he's been on that track for a few decades now, thinking Christianity can 'learn' from Islam.

I agree this swearing to Charles has to stop. It’s an embarrassing medieval relic .

An MP - voted in by our so called democracy - was warned that he would not be allowed to speak and was at risk of losing his seat if he continued to refuse to swear allegiance to Charles .
MPs should be swearing to the people .

Why has the uk monarchy clung to an honour gifted by the pope ? Defender of the faith refers to Catholicism not the faith of the Church of England . As far as I know the pope does not recognise the COE .

In any case seeing Charles and Camilla with the bells and smells and being anointed was jarring . But not as jarring as William - who is openly uninterested in religion ( as is his right ) - being anointed head of a church he has no interest in or aptitude to lead

Ridiculous .
Unfortunately if he goes ahead with the charade it will cost us at least 72 million ( cost of Charles’)

You are of course entitled to your opinions. The facts are that King Charles III is still constitutionally the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. His constitutional role remains entirely unchanged. We see him coming out of a Church of England Church at Christmas, Easter and for all the major ceremonial events that take place in this country. In our largely secular country, the Church of England remains the established church in England, meaning its laws require parliamentary oversight and its ties to the state are legally defined and the King remains its Supreme Governor.

Given the lack of religious observance that continues to diminish yearly in this country by Christians, I can't help but wonder of what importance or significance it has that our titular Monarch wants to be inclusive of all the faiths - including those of other Christians, not just the Church of England Christians.

Could you provide some evidence for this?

Sure, these links are from some years ago but there's no reason to assume he's changed his mind.

https://islamchannel.tv/king-charles-iii-quotes-on-islam-and-muslims-from-the-then-prince-charles/

https://www.wiltonpark.org.uk/idea/king-charles-speech-at-wilton-parks-50th-anniversary/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/11/king-charles-what-are-his-views-on-islam

I've just read that Aljazeera article. What in it do you find objectionable? It looks like common sense to me.

Christianity is not superior to other faiths.

this is interesting, I didn't know this. I'm not anti-royal from a fun and tourism point of view, quite enjoy it all actually, but from but from an actual 'he's your king' point of view I am anti royal, if you see what I mean? I wouldn't like to curtsey to him. He's just some person who randomly won palaces with his genetic lottery. I don't see why I should be forced to accept someone as some sort of minor league deity - especially not his heirs/successors too. That's gross.

@Devonshiregal "He's just some person who randomly won palaces with his genetic lottery."
The Royal Palaces and other estates don't belong to him you know?
Official royal palaces like Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle, and Kensington Palace belong to the reigning monarch "in right of the Crown".The King holds these properties in trust for the nation and the next monarch. By law, he cannot sell them, lease them, or keep any personal profit from them.

Christianity is the only faith that provides salvation via faith in Jesus Christ. The others do not.

We got told about him wanting to be that at school, as in a long time ago, surely?

Never made sense as it was Defender of the Catholic faith, but due to Henry VIII became Cof E.

@Pistachiocake "Never made sense as it was Defender of the Catholic faith, but due to Henry VIII became Cof E."

I agree.
I've already said upthread that Henry VIII did wrong when he continued to use that title. When he broke from Rome it was actually irrelevant.

Would that be the Protestant Christians or the Catholic Christians? Because if they’re both up there at the same time it’ll be chaos. The Protestants will be wanting to make bonfires out of palettes and the Catholics will be turning bread into the literal body of Christ (not sure how that works for vegetarians but I guess that would be an ecumenical matter).

@Loobylooisblue some of you need to brush up on your history. The Pope conferred the title on Henry VIII.

@Dandeloosha "Catholics will be turning bread into the literal body of Christ"

Only a Priest has that authority.

And it's "pallets" if you want to have a bonfire or transport a large item. "Palettes" are what artists use to mix their colours and are tiny.

And what about the "Free Church" and Non-denominational Christians? Don't you think they get a look in ?

HTH

@MargoLivebetter I don't think anyone is denying that.

You believe that. That does not make it fact.

For all you know, all faiths provide salvation via faith in their [insert name of deity or proxy of deity here].

He was forced towards his marriage to Diana. It was pretty close to an arranged marriage and they were the least suited couple ever.

I didn't dislike Diana, but I did feel great sympathy with her becoming stuck with that bunch. She once clearly said that she didn't want to be Queen, and their separation/divorce was announced soon after that.

Camilla was and is far better suited to be his wife and Queen (Consort). She shouldn't have been discounted as unsuitable all those years ago.

I can't see a problem with him being called "defender of faith/faiths". Much more all encompassing and suitable going forward. Didn't he himself make the suggestion many years ago whilst still Prince of Wales??

Haha no, you're forgetting sanctification is completed upon receiving an eternal body in heaven so there won't be any of that! We'll all have an understanding that surpasses anything we know now. Thankfully!

Yes I believe that because I'm a Christian. You are welcome to your opinion but naturally I disagree.

But belief is all it is. As is my belief that there is no god and no afterlife. We don't know. Wouldn't life be great if we could all just accept that we believe different things, that none of the things we believe are inherently superior to the things other people believe, and that we should just live and let live?