Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Do you believe in god?

1000 replies

Unicorndreams24 · 04/01/2026 23:14

i have recently been thinking a lot about religion and wondering how many believe in god and also what made you come to the decision of believing?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
RedTagAlan · 06/01/2026 16:11

GentleSheep · 06/01/2026 15:49

I can't give you scientific proof which is what you want, I presume. The Bible says God exists outside creation (Gen. 1:1 and John 1:1) and endures forever (Psalm 102:26-27, Isaiah 40:28, 1 Tim 1:17).

Yeah. As is usual with Bible stuff, verses quoted don't match the claim.

Gen 1:1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth, (LSV)

No mention of God existing outside creation. Just that he created heavens and earth. Given that this was written by iron age men, we can be fairly certain they were not aware of cosmology.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; (LSV)

What does that even mean ? God is a word ?

Psa 102:26 They perish, and You remain, || And all of them become old as a garment, || You change them as clothing, || And they are changed.
Psa 102:27 And You [are] the same, and Your years are not finished. (LSV)

No mention of existing outside creation.

1Ti 1:17 And to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only wise God, [is] honor and glory through the ages of the ages! Amen. (LSV)

Again, no mention of existing outside creation.

cupfinalchaos · 06/01/2026 16:18

Sadly I used to but can’t make sense of the evil in this world so am unsure now.

CurlewKate · 06/01/2026 16:34

GentleSheep · 06/01/2026 15:35

Have you got a better explanation for how everything came into being?

Well, I certainly haven’t. But I am perfectly happy with not knowing stuff and waiting for someone cleverer than me to find out.

GarlicSound · 06/01/2026 16:35

Nobody's ever gonna know how something came out of nothing, because the boundary just keeps getting pushed back. Whether the universe we're in came from a humungous singularity, just keeps puffing out and shrinking back, is a game or a science experiment in a bigger universe, was a speck of supermassive exploding dust, was born of a word, is a lump in the vomit of a very large space animal, was rustled up by a celestial granny on baking day ... you'll still have the question: Where did THAT come from?

The iron-age mystics writing the bible only asked where did the world come from? And their concept of the world was limited to the Middle East, parts of Europe and North Africa. Some of India and China if they were well educated. They never asked where the universe comes from - they had no concept of the universe. We just keep reapplying our question to the outer limit of our current knowledge.

The faithful keep applying the same answer to the expanding limits of human knowledge, too. This, imo, is one very big reason to prefer science over religion: science answers one question, eg "Is there anything beyond the Great Sea?" and, finding out that there is, immediately goes on to ask "Well, what else is there?" Science just keeps asking more questions, getting answers and going further. Religion says "Middle eastern world, planet Earth, solar system, galaxy, space, universe, who cares, it's all the same." All deriving from texts that make no mention of those things.

RedTagAlan · 06/01/2026 16:59

GarlicSound · 06/01/2026 16:35

Nobody's ever gonna know how something came out of nothing, because the boundary just keeps getting pushed back. Whether the universe we're in came from a humungous singularity, just keeps puffing out and shrinking back, is a game or a science experiment in a bigger universe, was a speck of supermassive exploding dust, was born of a word, is a lump in the vomit of a very large space animal, was rustled up by a celestial granny on baking day ... you'll still have the question: Where did THAT come from?

The iron-age mystics writing the bible only asked where did the world come from? And their concept of the world was limited to the Middle East, parts of Europe and North Africa. Some of India and China if they were well educated. They never asked where the universe comes from - they had no concept of the universe. We just keep reapplying our question to the outer limit of our current knowledge.

The faithful keep applying the same answer to the expanding limits of human knowledge, too. This, imo, is one very big reason to prefer science over religion: science answers one question, eg "Is there anything beyond the Great Sea?" and, finding out that there is, immediately goes on to ask "Well, what else is there?" Science just keeps asking more questions, getting answers and going further. Religion says "Middle eastern world, planet Earth, solar system, galaxy, space, universe, who cares, it's all the same." All deriving from texts that make no mention of those things.

Agree.

I sometimes equate the Christian Bible to one of the "Bibles" of mechanical Engineering. Shigleys Mechanical Engineering Design.

It's about the same size as the Bible, and every science based subject has similar. Shigley's is on its 10th edition now. Updated, any errors corrected. My edition on the shelf beside me is 30 years old, and still totally valid.

But the Christian Bible ? Hardly a page without a contradiction or a scientific error.

Yet the apologists just hand wave it all away. This line is totally true, this line is a metaphor, you are taking that out of context, this Hebrew word does not mean that.

And I wonder, what % of the Bible has to be shown as wrong before people say, "actually, I see what you mean".

But by Jove, if an evolution concept is updated, or a new theoretical physics theory is proposed, the apologists jump all over it.

To quote their own book : Mat 7:3 "And why do you behold the speck that [is] in your brother's eye, and do not consider the beam that [is] in your own eye?" (LSV)

So yup, come on Theologians. You have been at this for thousands of years. Any chance of you getting any answers to us soon ?

:-)

noidea69 · 06/01/2026 17:03

Its all bollocks, all of them, chirtianity, islam, hinduism, buddhism etc etc all bollocks. There might be some nice ideas in there about how to treat people, but if you need gods intervention to tell you to be nice to people then you have bigger problems.

Is there some divine being bigger than what we are, if there is they dont care about what any of us are doing.

GentleSheep · 06/01/2026 17:06

The Bible doesn't claim to be a scientific document. It's historical, a narrative and poetic and prophetic in parts. I choose to believe it because I have a deep belief in God's existence, always have had. I can't not believe, basically, no matter what you say, just have a strong faith! Not a satisfactory answer I realise, but that's all I've got!

RedTagAlan · 06/01/2026 17:10

GentleSheep · 06/01/2026 17:06

The Bible doesn't claim to be a scientific document. It's historical, a narrative and poetic and prophetic in parts. I choose to believe it because I have a deep belief in God's existence, always have had. I can't not believe, basically, no matter what you say, just have a strong faith! Not a satisfactory answer I realise, but that's all I've got!

And that is totally fair enough.

It would be nice though if other people of faith could keep it to themselves. Might be a bit less death and destruction.

Oaktree1952 · 06/01/2026 17:35

Yes I believe in God who created all in existence, I believe in Jesus who came to Earth to show us how to live and I believe that the Holy Spirit is working in the world today.
I also believe in science and I do not take the bible literally.

Mischance · 06/01/2026 17:52

I choose to believe it because I have a deep belief in God's existence - but which bits do you believe? - you can't believe it all as it is contradictory. A prime example is the vengeful god and the loving god. You can't have both, but they are both there in the bible.

The bible is a document that is of its time and of its people - written by humans in the context of their particular culture and prejudices.

It can be poetic and there are parts of the NT that have important messages about how to live, but that is all.

ThirdBanana · 06/01/2026 18:19

No

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 06/01/2026 18:24

Let’s consider some quotes from notable scientists on the subject-

There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all. . . It seems as though somebody has fine tuned nature's numbers to make the Universe. . . The impression of design is overwhelming." ~ Paul Davies

"It now seems to me that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design." ~ Antony Flew

"As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency-or, rather, Agency-must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" ~ George Greenstein

"Here is the cosmological proof of the existence of God - the design argument of Paley - updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one.... Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the teleological or design argument." ~ Edward Robert Harrison

"A commonsense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." ~ Fred Hoyle

"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." ~ Robert Jastrow

"It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in." ~ Robert Jastrow

"The exquisite order displayed by our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the divine." ~ Vera Kistiakowsky

"This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." ~ Isaac Newton

"The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator. Science brings men nearer to God." ~ Louis Pasteur

“On March 12, 1978, not long after Dr. Penzias and Dr. Wilson discovered Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation that proved the universe had a beginning, Dr. Penzias made the following comments to the New York Times:
“The best data we have are exactly what I would have predicted, had I had nothing to go on but the five books of Moses, the Psalms, the Bible as a whole.”
Dr Arno Penzias

“Why do I believe in God? As a physicist, I look at nature from a particular perspective. I see an orderly, beautiful universe in which nearly all physical phenomena can be understood from a few simple mathematical equations. I see a universe that, had it been constructed slightly differently, would never have given birth to stars and planets, let alone bacteria and people. And there is no good scientific reason for why the universe should not have been different. Many good scientists have concluded from these observations that an intelligent God must have chosen to create the universe with such beautiful, simple, and life-giving properties.”
William D Phillips

Not only can we measure many characteristics of the universe throughout its history, but in these measurements we are discovering some of the attributes of the One who fashioned it all. Astronomy has provided us with new tools to probe the Creator’s personality.” - Hugh Ross

"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery, but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." ~ Allan Sandage

"When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics." ~ Frank J. Tipler

Life is a great miracle, we approach the scientific explanations, but one question still remains there: Why all this? Here, I believe in God!”
Gerhard Ertl

"both the real world and mathematics are traceable to the Mind of God who created both the universe and the human mind. It is, therefore, not surprising when the mathematical theories spun by human minds created in the image of God’s Mind, find ready application in a universe whose architect was that same creative Mind.”
John Lennox

interesting. 🤔

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 06/01/2026 18:45

“They never asked where the universe comes from - they had no concept of the universe. ”
”All deriving from texts that make no mention of those things.“

except…
Ursa Major, Orion and the Pleiades and the constellations of the Zodiac are mentioned in the book of Job. 🤔

Lollylavender · 06/01/2026 19:07

Oaktree1952 · 06/01/2026 17:35

Yes I believe in God who created all in existence, I believe in Jesus who came to Earth to show us how to live and I believe that the Holy Spirit is working in the world today.
I also believe in science and I do not take the bible literally.

Which parts do you honestly believe to be true?

ProblematicallyPorus · 06/01/2026 19:15

Mischance · 06/01/2026 17:52

I choose to believe it because I have a deep belief in God's existence - but which bits do you believe? - you can't believe it all as it is contradictory. A prime example is the vengeful god and the loving god. You can't have both, but they are both there in the bible.

The bible is a document that is of its time and of its people - written by humans in the context of their particular culture and prejudices.

It can be poetic and there are parts of the NT that have important messages about how to live, but that is all.

How can you not have both? As humans we are capable of both love and vengeance.

Justice (or you could chose to call it vengence) and love are natural bedfellows.

Mischance · 06/01/2026 19:23

ProblematicallyPorus · 06/01/2026 19:15

How can you not have both? As humans we are capable of both love and vengeance.

Justice (or you could chose to call it vengence) and love are natural bedfellows.

If there were to be a supreme creator I cannot imagine they would be anything like humans.

Oaktree1952 · 06/01/2026 19:45

Lollylavender · 06/01/2026 19:07

Which parts do you honestly believe to be true?

I don’t understand the question? Which parts of what? Which parts of Christianity?

I don’t believe in everything that is written in the bible because it was written by men for men. I believe that we misunderstand a lot of what is written in the bible.
I don’t believe God is vengeful nor do I believe he causes suffering in the world.

I believe in the core teachings of Jesus. To love God and to love everyone. I believe the world would
be a better place if people could separate the core values of a religion from the misunderstandings and the desire for power of men.
I believe the only way to have a relationship with God is to pray.

ProblematicallyPorus · 06/01/2026 20:20

Mischance · 06/01/2026 19:23

If there were to be a supreme creator I cannot imagine they would be anything like humans.

I appreciate that this might not be toir point of view, but as a Christian I believe man was made in God's image.

Parker231 · 06/01/2026 21:03

ProblematicallyPorus · 06/01/2026 20:20

I appreciate that this might not be toir point of view, but as a Christian I believe man was made in God's image.

I don’t know any men who look like the pictures I’ve seen of god.

ByLovingTraybake · 06/01/2026 21:06

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 06/01/2026 18:24

Let’s consider some quotes from notable scientists on the subject-

There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all. . . It seems as though somebody has fine tuned nature's numbers to make the Universe. . . The impression of design is overwhelming." ~ Paul Davies

"It now seems to me that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design." ~ Antony Flew

"As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency-or, rather, Agency-must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" ~ George Greenstein

"Here is the cosmological proof of the existence of God - the design argument of Paley - updated and refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one.... Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the teleological or design argument." ~ Edward Robert Harrison

"A commonsense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." ~ Fred Hoyle

"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." ~ Robert Jastrow

"It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in." ~ Robert Jastrow

"The exquisite order displayed by our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the divine." ~ Vera Kistiakowsky

"This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." ~ Isaac Newton

"The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator. Science brings men nearer to God." ~ Louis Pasteur

“On March 12, 1978, not long after Dr. Penzias and Dr. Wilson discovered Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation that proved the universe had a beginning, Dr. Penzias made the following comments to the New York Times:
“The best data we have are exactly what I would have predicted, had I had nothing to go on but the five books of Moses, the Psalms, the Bible as a whole.”
Dr Arno Penzias

“Why do I believe in God? As a physicist, I look at nature from a particular perspective. I see an orderly, beautiful universe in which nearly all physical phenomena can be understood from a few simple mathematical equations. I see a universe that, had it been constructed slightly differently, would never have given birth to stars and planets, let alone bacteria and people. And there is no good scientific reason for why the universe should not have been different. Many good scientists have concluded from these observations that an intelligent God must have chosen to create the universe with such beautiful, simple, and life-giving properties.”
William D Phillips

Not only can we measure many characteristics of the universe throughout its history, but in these measurements we are discovering some of the attributes of the One who fashioned it all. Astronomy has provided us with new tools to probe the Creator’s personality.” - Hugh Ross

"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery, but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." ~ Allan Sandage

"When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics." ~ Frank J. Tipler

Life is a great miracle, we approach the scientific explanations, but one question still remains there: Why all this? Here, I believe in God!”
Gerhard Ertl

"both the real world and mathematics are traceable to the Mind of God who created both the universe and the human mind. It is, therefore, not surprising when the mathematical theories spun by human minds created in the image of God’s Mind, find ready application in a universe whose architect was that same creative Mind.”
John Lennox

interesting. 🤔

I really enjoyed reading these — thank you for sharing them. I’ve long appreciated John Lennox’s debates and conversations with people like Dawkins, not least for the way he models engaging in apologetics with both grace and respect. I’ve always found it compelling how he holds science and faith not as opposites, but as complementary, with science pointing to the beauty and order of God’s work — something he expresses far more eloquently than I ever could.

ByLovingTraybake · 06/01/2026 21:07

Parker231 · 06/01/2026 21:03

I don’t know any men who look like the pictures I’ve seen of god.

In the Bible, “made in God’s image” isn’t about physical appearance, but about reflecting God’s nature — things like reason, creativity, moral responsibility and relationship. I am quite excited to one day see God’s holy face though!

ByLovingTraybake · 06/01/2026 21:15

cupfinalchaos · 06/01/2026 16:18

Sadly I used to but can’t make sense of the evil in this world so am unsure now.

I’m really sorry. I can understand that — the reality of evil is deeply troubling and painful. From a Christian perspective, I personally find Scripture is very honest about it. For me, the Christian hope isn’t that suffering is explained away, but that God enters into it through Christ and promises restoration, even when much remains hard to make sense of. Christianity doesn’t pretend these things are easy to explain or quickly resolved. Instead, it points to a God who enters into our suffering through Christ, who grieves what is broken, and who promises that evil will not have the final word. For me, comfort is found in fixing my eyes on the future that God will one day make things right — restoring what has been damaged, wiping away injustice and pain — even when much of this life remains hard to understand. The psalms are great comfort in times of distress or when I ponder the sin and suffering around. But of course, I appreciate the personal nature of what brings comfort in turmoil.

SheSaidSheCouldButSheLied · 06/01/2026 21:15

NO

TheMerryJoker · 06/01/2026 21:16

Unicorndreams24 · 04/01/2026 23:14

i have recently been thinking a lot about religion and wondering how many believe in god and also what made you come to the decision of believing?

i think there may be some entities eg the freemasons concept of a divine being, but other than that i dont trust any books written by humans about religion as they are all basically methods of control and basically a mix of stories and basically no different than having harry potter as a religion

GarlicSound · 06/01/2026 21:19

"It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in."

Remarks like this by scientists are frequently quoted as evidence that religion isn't unscientific, or something. To me they sound breathtakingly arrogant, and not a little daft.

The conditions in this tiny piece of the universe just happen to be excellent for the evolution of intelligent primates at this time. This is not even slightly surprising because, if they hadn't been ... our species would not have occurred. Have these people never heard of Darwin?

More likely they simply can't bear to think they're mere products of natural selection, just like tardigrades, slime moulds, crocodiles and mantis shrimps (which, by the way, would be a much better showpiece for a designer/creator of all life).

I assume people have asked them if this means god created the universe especially for dinosaurs, which dominated life on Earth for 90 times as long as homo so far has. They must've committed a horrible sin, to be so favoured for so long and then summarily wiped out by one of the deity's so-called merciful acts. Maybe he realised, after 180 million years, reptiles were never going to learn to sing his praises the way he likes 🤔

As for the incredible, systematic order of nature ..! I'll forgive Newton and any other Enlightenment bods, as they were only just discovering scientific thought which is, of course, more orderly than the mishmash of emotion and mythology that preceded it. But anyone who should know about particles popping randomly into existence, only to be annihilated as soon as they appear, or the system's implacable tendency to entropy, or even cancer, has a very odd idea of 'order' and 'systematic'. If this is evidence of a god's reasoned design, the god must have ADHD.

I agree with the one who said mathematics is beautiful to the human mind because the human mind invented it. I don't see this as any kind of proof god invented both maths and the human mind.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.