People assuming: if you go to church, you are holier than thou, hate swearing etc.

[scalt]

I had this happen to me recently, which surprised me: a colleague I like very much who knows I go to church swore in front of me, then covered her mouth and said “I forgot you don’t like swearing”. I had never said such a thing, and she added that she thought I don’t like it because I go to church, and I don’t think she was joking.

I swiftly put her right, explained that I don’t think many of us who go to church are any holier than anyone else; but I was wondering if this is a popular belief. Has anyone else had this?

Out of interest, does your husband pray a lot at home, for example, saying grace before every meal, and making the whole family stand reverently while he prays, like Rowan Atkinson does in Keeping Mum? And an early scene in that film shows his wife swearing about next door's barking dog.

I'm reminded of a line in Roald Dahl's The Witches: "I couldn't believe that my grandmother was lying to me. She went to church every Sunday and said grace before every meal, and somebody who did that would never tell lies."

Nah, he swears like a docker too 😃

Interestingly none of these ‘rules’ said by Jesus.

Jesus knew that rules are for sheep, that’s why he admonished the Jews for their obsessing rule following but having no care for God’s word in their hearts.

All the laws and prophets hung on loving God and treating your neighbour as yourself. That is the rule.

It is quite common for people to look at you differently when they discover that you and your family are churchgoers.If people discover that you have worked as a vicar for years you are measured on a different scale.Gradually, people forget about it again.

I'm not a Christian so I can't comment but I found these quotes from the Bible regarding the subject matter, ie swearing. So do Christinas disregard the Old Testament?

I bet this colleague walked away from this exchange thinking “ok so church people don’t mind swearing but bloody hell they’re a bit pompous!”

I’ll be flamed, but I react less when it’s the vicar in this example. If I realise X person is religious, I have little internal reflex panic of “oh I hope you don’t start trying to convert me or quoting Bible passages as if it’s common parlance”. With a vicar? I sort of get a more “they’re chill” vibe - as in, that’s their day job to sermon and they’re more likely to be a listening ear than be 24/7 full throttle. Maybe it’s too much Vicar of Dibley…

On the other hand, she might have seen that Christians are human like everyone else. I’m far from perfect - I have my own prejudices about (for example) Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I might feel differently if I knew some personally. I was brought up a Catholic, but I couldn’t agree with the emphasis on guilt that seems to go with it, which is one reason I changed to CofE. I think some churchgoers, and indeed vicars, take the view that nobody can be as perfect as Jesus, and as @Screamingabdabz said, a notable feature about him is that he didn’t follow rules and social expectations.

As for my colleague, she’s also a good friend whom I like very much. But her reaction to me going to church surprised me. If she thinks I’m pompous, she also has plenty to say about things that matter to her, so it’s mutual. 😝

On the other hand, she might have seen that Christians are human like everyone else.

she gave no impression of thinking you were not human!

shed read the 10 commandments and maybe considered you followed them 🤷‍♀️

As for my colleague, she’s also a good friend whom I like very much. But her reaction to me going to church surprised me.

a good friend and this exchange took place? She’s never sworn in front of you before or seen you around others that have sworn to see it doesn’t bother you?

Someone trying to not swear in front of you is respectful. If they all you have to say is 'oh I don't mind.'

She was trying to respect you, which is nice.

Not swearing isn't holier than thou it's just a personal choice in how you want to live and present.

Personally I think swearing has become horribly ubiquitous and heard everywhere in public, on trains in restaurants etc. It has coarsened the culture.

I only swear in front of DH or close friends when the setting is very relaxed.

I'd never swear at work, on a train or bus, around or children, (even my adult children!) Or around people I don't know very well.
Time and place should be considered.
And religious people may not like swearing so isn't it pleasant to refrain from swearing when around them, but maybe 10pm in the pub with friends is different?

I wish swearing was less common.

Am I holier than thou? Or do I just have a different view from all the swearing types?

Agree people do stereotype and presume things

I told someone I was going to a service to welcome a new minister and his husband to our circuit and she didn’t believe we had gay ministers and told me I must be mistaken!

When people say to me ‘I didn’t realise you were a Christian’ I don’t know whether to feel insulted or pleased…?!

People who don't swear are human.

I don't giving a hoot if people around me swear, fall over drunk, have sex outwith marriage, etc etc. But I wouldn't do these things myself (admittedly occasionally a swear does slip out).

By the same notion I'd be a bit surprised if a genuine Christian (not to be confused with a church-goer) did these things repeatedly without trying to stop. I wouldn't judge them or be offended, but the idea is that you do your best to follow Jesus' example. Christian is 'follower of Christ'.

Yep. We only met and became friends this year, admittedly, so we’re still learning about each other, and we only work together once a week. To me, that’s part of the joy of friendship - learning new things about people. And the moment she swore was when the two of us were enjoying a shared whispered rant about the circumstances we were working in. She doesn’t do it every sentence, and neither do I - I don’t like it when it’s overdone. If I minded swearing that much, I probably wouldn’t be on mumsnet.

So she’s sworn repeatedly in front of you in the past and never been concerned?

I had never said such a thing, and she added that she thought I don’t like it because I go to church, and I don’t think she was joking.
I swiftly put her right, explained that I don’t think many of us who go to church are any holier than anyone else;

This doesn’t sound like a “good friendship” exchange but hey ho!

How do we know what Jesus’ example is though? We know he turned tables and upset people with his righteous anger. We know that we shouldn’t blaspheme or offend our neighbours. Outside of that, if I say “oh bugger” if I stub my toe - how is that diminishing my Christian vocation?

Perhaps people are thinking of Aunt Em's words in the classic film The Wizard of Oz. "For twenty-three years, I've been dying to tell you what I've thought of you. And now, being a Christian woman, I can't say it!"

I can confirm I am not thinking that!

Only when it suits them.

It can't be dismissed altogether, as it contains the fundamental basis of the christian religion- the fall of man. It also contains the 10 commandments, many social rules, genocidal tales of floating zoos for the kiddies.
It also contains instruction that is homophobic, mysogynistic anti semetic, bigoted and pro slavery. The god of the old testament is wrathful, violent, jealous- all by his own admission.

Some christians talk of the "New Covenant" of the New Testament which somehow erases the more horrifying parts of the OT, but I have not heard of a good explanation of how or which parts should be ignored, and by what criteria that is judged.

I don't think it diminishes any vocation in the least. It shows you're human as well as Christian, and though try to live a Christ like life, slip up from time to time - as do we all.
I've been going through a difficult time personally recently, and more than one vicar has said to me 'That sounds shit'. And they're right, and that's how I'd describe it. It doesn't make me think they're less of a vicar or anything like that; rather it's actually affirming to hear them say that, that they've recognised the crappiness that's been going on.

I don't make assumptions, but then I have a good few churchgoing people around me through the support group I run for families of addicts. We're a very diverse mob.

@ginasevern I really wonder what is meant by 'seasond with salt' in terms of speech, because I imagine that could include some pretty colourful language. Or of course it my be an instruction to be pass-agg and sarcastic instead of swearing. Which I'm here for.

She doesn’t do it every sentence, and neither do I

so you’re close friends and you have both sworn multiple times in front of each other?

That’s not what I said. You keep putting words in my mouth.

so you’re close friends and you have both sworn multiple times in front of each other?

I don't understand why these two things couldn't coexist, Hardtum.
I've got friends that I'll swear in front of and vice versa. So, we might have sworn multiple times over the years in front of each other.
Why would that stop us being friends?
Unless the implication is that all the swearing happened on one occasion during a ding dong row or something.
But it's obvious that's not what scalt meant.

I had never said such a thing, and she added that she thought I don’t like it because I go to church, and I don’t think she was joking.
I swiftly put her right, explained that I don’t think many of us who go to church are any holier than anyone else;

This doesn’t sound like a “good friendship” exchange but hey ho!

What's wrong with the exchange,
Blinkagain? It sounds perfectly reasonable to correct someone's misapprehension and carry on from there.
You can do that sort of thing in a good friendship.