Is this a commonly held view within Christianity?

[ohfook]

I appreciate this post shows my ignorance somewhat, but this is something I've been curious about for years.

My parents raised me as a Christian and would describe themselves as very religious. Their belief system could be summarised as they believe that god is love, we don't need to worry about hell because god forgives and that all religions are just different paths to the same destination and it should be possible for them all to coexist.

I was much older when I realised that other Christian's take a far more bookish/learned approach to the religion. In particular an ex of mine had parents who knew the bible to the letter. They said a lot of things that totally contradicted the belief system that I'd been brought up in. One thing they said really stuck in my mind. They believed that the when the Antichrist came, he'd bring seven years of peace to the Middle East first and people would think he was a hero?

I was just wondering if a lot of people believe this? Mainly because if I was a politician, it would really put me off getting involved because I wouldn't want people to think that about me.

I don't know of any studies which prove that the scriptures have altered in meaning?!

Certainly there are aspects of scripture which apply differently in the modern day than in their original time, such as regulations about clothing and dress.
And no doubt there are people who have dismissed parts of scripture as being no longer relevant. But some people dismissing something doesn't mean that there is universal agreement about it.

What you say about God condemning people who don't tick all the boxes is missing the point. Hard as it is, the Bible says that the wages of sin are death, and that everyone sins. So no one ticks all the boxes, not even Christians. What the bible teaches is that Jesus offers a way for anyone and everyone to spend eternity with God, despite not ticking all the boxes. All they have to do is say "yes please" to Jesus's offer.

You might not like that belief, but as I said in my original post, that is the core Christian belief, taught in the bible, and taught by the Church throughout history. You don't have to agree with it, but you can't re-design Christianity because you don't like it.

Also, I don't know of any Christian who takes delight in the idea of people missing out on eternity with God. But we're in a kind of Catch-22 position. Because if we go around telling everyone about Jesus then people complain about being preached to or bible-bashed.

So, if you're not Christian, given that Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to God, what would you like us to do about that? Should we tell you? Or not tell you?

A while ago I was teaching with a colleague who was very fundamental in her beliefs - she wouldn't visit a gurdwara because "it was full of demons". Our classes were together watching a BBC programme on the Ancient Greeks with a dramatised family - then we had a Q&A about it. I expected stuff about how they made thier clothes,what oil was in the lamps, and would have been ready for that. But one boy was very exercised about what happened to them when they died, since they lived before Jesus. Would they go to hell? And Mrs literal believer handed that to me. I wanted to say that they had been taught wrong - nobody had ever raised that sort of issue before, but I couldn't professionally. But I recalled something of Paul, saying that those who did not know Jesus would be judged on how well they lived according to what they had been taught. So the boy and his fellows were happy, and so was Mrs l-b, who smiled at me as though I had passed a test. What I did not do was find out what she had been teaching in RE, to a mixed groups including Sikhs.

@shrewdasserpentsinnocentasdoves
My preference would be not to tell me I am damned, thank you.

I remember before I was a Christian being indignant when I heard people speak the truth of the Gospel. I felt angry and resentful towards them. I see those feelings coming out in some of the posters here.

But I’m so glad the Lord sent people to tell me the truth, even though it was years later that I finally surrendered to Him and began the wonderful new life I have now in Him.

And now, as one of His followers, I also have the responsibility to bring the truth to the attention of others. He’s commanded us to make His message known. What people do with that message isn’t our responsibility. That’s between them and the Holy Spirit.

@LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms you have a remarkable ability to put people off Christianity, and then claim it is their fault because they can’t understand.

You don’t seem to exercise much humility, and rather claim that anyone who doesn’t agree with you simply does understand the revealed Word of our Lord, Jesus Christ, as imparted to you by His Holy Spirit.

Do you never consider that others- including many great theologians and deeply spiritual people- also have spiritual insights and knowledge and yet do not agree with you? Can you really say with such confidence that you know better? That they are wrong, because you are right? Surely it would be more likely that the truth is not as obvious as we would all like, and that we will have to wait for the great revelation to learn the full truth? As we can only see through a mirror, darkly? We are supposed to come before our Lord as children, not as know it alls.

Another teacher tale, from a secondary school. A teacher, an atheist, came across a boy in tears in the cloakroom. It turned out that the boy, also an atheist, with atheist parents, had been in RE (education now, not instruction) and been informed by the teacher that he, and his parents, were going to hell. It took a whole session to calm him down. That is not what Christians should be doing. I hope the parents complained.

I dont understand why you seem angry, or where you think I said the things that you're suggesting I said.

I didn't say anything about having unique insight or about people disagreeing with me being wrong. I just think that if someone doesn't believe the core Christian beliefs then they're not Christian.

If I were to come on here and post "I'm an atheist but I also believe that God exists" I would expect someone to cone aling and point out "you're actually not an atheist, since being atheist is defined as not believing in God". This would be very different from them saying "You're wrong to believe in God". The second statement is a matter of belief, but the first statement is just a matter of knowing the meanings of words.

This is the same thing as what i have said in my posts. I have not told anyone that their beliefs are wrong, all I have done is stated that the definition of the Christianity is a fixed thing and it can't just mean whatever anyone wants it to.

If you believe that all religions lead to the same God, then I'm not telling you that you're wrong, but I am telling you that you're not a Christian.

FWIW, I do not advocate at all for telling people, especially children, that they are categorically going to Hell. I don't laim to know for certain who is going where and I think it's an unhelpful starting point.

That said, I think its quite unlikely that the boy was specifically told that he and his family are going to hell (if he was, that's very wrong), and more likely that he was taught the beliefs of one world religion or the other.

However, at the risk of sounding callous, it doesn't really make much sense for someone who doesn't believe in God or an afterlife to get upset by what other people think will happen in an afterlife that they themselves don't believe in.

I don't care if Muslims believe that I will get punished by Allah in the afterlife or if atheists believe that my soul will just rot away with my body, because I I don't believe that myself. And I know that someone else believing it doesn't make it any more likely to happen.

Just like if I met someone who thinks that the covid vaccines contain alien DNA, it wouldn't bother me because I don't believe it myself. And I might think they were wrong and maybe a bit crazy, but it wouldn't feel angry or upset.

That's entirely fair. I would respect that preference. I dont think anyone should be forced to hear other people's beliefs if they express that they don't want to hear them.

And a vicar tale. I arrived in one job to find that it was impossible to get into a couple of schools in the parish as a minister from an independent conservative church had been in and frightened the children with tales of hell and damnation. This was where they and their families were all going.

In the same parish I had a conversation with a young minister who was about to lead his first sermon. He was very nervous but was planning to deliver a full fire and brimstone sermon to the bereaved. He wouldn't listen to anything I said as I was a woman in church leadership, but it turned out he had had no training in pastoral care in his ministry training. All he needed to be a church leader was to preach the conservative view of scripture which had been approved by the male elders of his denomination.

That was a hard town to work in.

I agree. I’m ok with passing by anyone who indicates that they don’t want to hear. That’s their choice.

I think it’s a tricky thing belief/faith. It’s like a knowing but not knowing. Discerning this and acknowledging it within ourselves develops along our personal faith journeys, I feel. We can surprise ourselves and be surprised at what comes to the surface when we are challenged. I think we often need much time for reflection to gain clarity away from loud voices which sound so confident. I think it is important not to railroad people too strongly to allow for this. Something I think I sometimes can be guilty of.

No, it was aimed directly at the boy. My source was truthful. The boy had asked specifically about his family. And he had got in a state where saying that as he didn't believe in a god or his works, hell was meaningless anyway.
Millstones spring to mind.

I don't believe anyone is going to hell. The bible tells us that Jesus is way to heaven and the only sin that bars the way is not believing in him. It also tells us that on judgment day 'at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow, every tongue confess him ...'.

And yet if all that is barring the way to God is having faith in Jesus then why do so many people reject Him? They're basically turning down an eternal life full of joy! I wouldn't even say 'you'll go to Hell' I'd just say 'you will miss out on all the wonderful things that await you! Yet people don't want to know.

@Treaclewell, the fact that the boy was so upset would suggest on some level he did actually believe. At the very least he wasn’t secure in the validity of atheism. So another reason why we simply cannot judge.

But I think you are correct regarding millstones. It would not be at all desirable for that upset to cause such an offence someone develops a negative association with Christianity and rejects it for that reason. The stick of ‘carrot and stick’ approach is not something to be wielded light heartedly! For some people it causes much trauma rather than being an incentive. The more weak and vulnerable the person the more likely trauma can occur.

Added to that the type of resilience produced from trauma that causes a type of hardness, harshness and toughness is pretty undesirable too. It means people can turn away from anything remotely associated with the church.

@AlteredStater, I think the only way to encourage people to Christ who have a negative association with their past experiences of the church is to show them acceptance, love and kindness in a more practical way.

Yes, I agree. 😊

Just read this. Seems very relevant to this thread. Talks about not needing perfect faith which I think relates to what I was talking about concerning developing belief and faith and not even discerning the full extent of our own beliefs until we come face to face with them.

https://www.methodist.org.uk/for-churches/resources/bible-studies/friday-14-march-2025/