Navigating Halloween

[AgileGreenSeal]

Any Christian parents / grandparents here? How do you navigate Halloween in regards to your children?

I’ve only watched the first ten minutes, but respectfully, what nonsense. She was clearly, for whatever reason, a vulnerable, disturbed child, who was failed by the adults around her, if aged six, she had a whole range of OCD rituals about counting the number of words she said on her fingers and thinking some were number ok and some meant she was ‘owned by the devil’, and was terrified of the dark. And when she skips ahead to her teens, she says herself she was doing drugs. It really wasn’t that she was ‘owned by the devil’ from a young age by having engaged in witchcraft or hung out with Buddhists, druids, Wiccans and Satanists, it was because she was vulnerable and a drug user.

I know a child who has religious ocd, terrified of the devil etc. It’s a very debilitating condition.
It was triggered by religion lessons in a Catholic school. The child is autistic so was more vulnerable I think.

Developing ocd rituals doesn’t necessarily mean adults around a child are failing them though@KindOf. I think that’s unfair on the many parents who are struggling with this. There are many forms of ocd and it’s more common in those with asd.

It’s not the rituals, @Mortifiedbythis, it’s the fact that she also refers to doing tarot cards obsessively aged six with a friend, and visiting a Buddhist who had them ‘doing rituals’ (by which she seems to mean mantras and using prayer beads?). It does make me wonder where her parents were in this? . I mean, I’ve only watched some of the video, and her POV is clearly ‘I was taken by the dark side until the Lord rescued me’, so it’s essentially a propaganda piece), and it’s b perfectly possible her parents were terribly worried by her OCD, and the Buddhist, whom she presents as sinister and ‘occult’-leaning, was a blameless, much-loved auntie who visited them, and the Tarot was just a passing fancy like playing Snap, but in general the picture she paints of her early childhood suggests a very vulnerable child struggling with issues.

But you’re right, of course. Her parents may have been absolutely on it all along, it just doesn’t suit her narrative of being ‘owned by the devil’ aged six.

Okay thanks. The child I know is definitely not being let down by parents who aren’t even particularly religious. Perhaps by the teacher or visiting priest at school? I’m not sure what was said in the lessons. It didn’t seem to negatively affect the others (including a bemused sibling) but this little child was badly scared. Scarred really, in truth. I do think their neurodiversity meant they took what was said very seriously, too seriously, and developed intrusive thoughts and many rituals as a result. The child was removed from the lessons but it was too late.

Anyway, bottom line is some of the teachings of Christianity can be very scary for vulnerable people too.

Right?! Flesh-eating and blood-drinking rituals under a symbol of violent, sadistic execution.

Generally it's hardcore fundies who object to Halloween, because they have no sense of nuance, no tolerance for other people's culture and about as much genuine spirituality as a rusty crowbar.

She says it was a Buddhist neighbour and also she used to do Tarot readings for people around the age of 16-17, then later yoga, and yes psychedelic drugs were used on occasion, but sounds like she used them for out of mind experiences as she says she thought she was working with 'light' and doing good. She was trying to contact spirit guides in order to get more 'understanding' and thought they were helping her gain mystical knowledge, and she became friends with Satanists, Shamans, Druids, energy healers, etc who taught her more practices. It all led her to becoming suicidal. More of her testimony is on her channel page.

You're right though, her parents seemed totally uninvolved or not enough to realise what she was doing, or maybe to care, which is sad in itself. She doesn't mention what their thoughts or involvement were when she was an adult.

Yes, exactly. I mean, the rituals of various forms of Christianity can look astonishingly occult and sinister to people from other traditions. My friend who grew up in a conventional C of E background was completely horrified by the crucifixes on the classroom walls in a Catholic primary school. Which are, after all, images of a bloody, semi-naked man being horribly executed after torture.

I grew up liberal Jewish and yes, Christianity scared the pants off me with it's torture scenes, blood oozing crucifixes, way more than Halloween witches and ghosts.
I've a friend now visiting Italy and she posts pics from churches. I cannot believe my eyes: female saints with their breasts cut off, eyes gouged out...the entire scene is sadistic.
Give me Apollo or Venus to worship any day...

@Sorciere1, or some of the old Norse worship practices?

Or the Roman amphitheatres?

I'm with you, OP, and we did not celebrate Halloween with my children. It was a struggle at times, but I think if you have experience of some of the things linked with Halloween then it's natural to not want to celebrate it.

There are two aspects which are attractive to children, the dressing-up and the sweets.

To deal with the sweets, on Halloween I used to do was take my children to the expensive sweet shop after school and tell them they could choose anything they wanted, to an unlimited amount. This was an expensive business, normally set me back around £20+ and most of the sweets didn't get eaten in the end. But it was worth it because the children at least felt like they were not missing out on sweets, and I think it paints a picture of God's overflowing generosity to us because for that day they could ask for more and more without limit, and they came away feeling like they'd got more than they could ever need.

The dressing-up part was harder, especially as one of my DCs loved dressing up. For this I mainly used distraction and avoidance, e.g. watch a movie, avoid going anywhere that there will be trick or treaters, and if you live in an area where people knock on doors then you'd want to go out for the evening somewhere. Most of the places which are normally busy will be more quiet as others are doing halloween, so for example a soft-play/trampoline centre or ice-rink will be virtually empty compared with other times.

Looking back, I wonder whether I might have navigated it differently: maybe I could have let them dress up as something non-halloween like spiderman or a princess, and done some door-knocking to give gifts rather than ask for sweets, or maybe have gone door-knocking in costume, taken the sweets but then given out some Christian/bible halloween tracts (you can buy little halloween cartoon leaflet things). But my children are older now, so they don't care any more. I will be interested to see what they do for their own children when the time comes.

and done some door-knocking to give gifts rather than ask for sweets, or maybe have gone door-knocking in costume, taken the sweets but then given out some Christian/bible halloween tracts

Lots of people enjoy giving out sweets to kids at Halloween - they enjoy the trick or treating, chatting to neighbours etc. There’s no need to give gifts instead, or to feel obligated to give back something in return. Round here, people who don’t want to take part just keep the lights at the front off. Those who do have their houses lit up and decorated and they’re the ones people call to.

I’m hoping you’re joking about taking your children around the neighbours in costume to hand out Christian tracts, but I suspect you’re deadly serious. Using your children to proselytise during a fun, child-centred community occasion is beyond low.

This is a good article on why Halloween is not Pagan. It can also be viewed or listened to - it's on youtube and there's a podcast. The author is seriously well qualified and well read.

historyforatheists.com/2021/10/is-halloween-pagan/

This looks like a fascinating website, will definitely have a good read through. Thanks!

I didn't say that I'd done it, just that I'd thought of it as an option.

I partially take your point, but is it really "beyond low"? To knock on someone's door in dress-up clothes on the same night as everyone else knocking on their door in dress-up clothes, to do the same exchange of sweets that everyone else is doing, but also to offer a leaflet which each person has the right to decline, or to throw in the bin? If a child on halloween handed you a flyer for their school fete, or for their dad's window-cleaning business, would that be "beyond low" as well? I do understand that many people find unsolicited door knockers annoying, whether it's charity donations or sales or whatever, so I take the point about that, but I think describing it as "beyond low" is somewhat hyperbolic!

The OP asked for advice about navigating Halloween as a Christian who doesn't want to celebrate it, and I gave some options. As far as I could see, almost every other post is just telling her to lighten up. So I shared what I had done with my own children, and some other ideas I'd thought about since then.

I'd take a dim view of anyone handing me a flyer for a window cleaning business, and a much dimmer one of they came to my door to do it. If they came to my door in fancy dress and did that I'd think they were certifiable. If you want to distribute tracts put them in people's letter boxes, but bear in mind that they may not be well received.

I would regard a child handing out flyers for a parents’ business while trick or treating as crass, and I would think that a parent trying to monetise their child engaging in an ordinary childhood ritual suggested very poor judgement and possible coercion.

Yes, unsolicited door-knocking by Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons is irritating, but they are adults not hiding the fact that they’re proseletysing. There’s no issue with saying ‘Not interested, thanks’ and shutting the door. Answering the door smilingly to small children dressed as pumpkins, when you’ve decorated your house specifically to say that they’re welcome, involves an adult having decided to instrumentalise children’s biddability and adults’ ingrained wish not to cause children unnecessary distress at a festive occasion. It’s underhand and exploitative. That would even have contemplated this suggests very poor judgement and a real failure of understanding.

@hasanyoneseenmykeys I think, if you want to promote Christianity at Halloween the best way might be to support a celebration event of the festival at your church. Help with all the arrangements and ensure it is welcoming to everyone. Look into the Christian symbolism, maybe make some 'soul cakes' (depending on your particular church doctrine!🥴)...

If a child on halloween handed you a flyer for their school fete, or for their dad's window-cleaning business, would that be "beyond low" as well?

I don't want to come across as piling on, but this would also be inappropriate in my opinion. Trick-or-treating isn't an opportunity to either advertise or proselytise. Obviously if you're taking part in a church activity that's quite different but coming to people's doors under false pretences and using children to distribute religious tracts would upset me, and I'm also a Christian. Obviously I take your point that you didn't actually do it though. 🙂

To clarify, I did not do this or contemplate doing it! I also wouldn't send my child door-knocking to promote a business, and I have no particular interest in using Halloween to promote Christianity.

When my children were young, we just let it pass us by in the way I explained in my initial post. The suggestion about handing out tracts is not something I have given lengthy thought to, just literally something that came into my head as one of the possible ways someone might approach it.

I agree that door-knocking for anything is not great, but if someone offered me a flyer that I didn't want, I would just say no thank you, I just can't imagine getting that angry or upset by it.

Do what millions of people will be doing, and go to church the next day for All Saints' and the day after that for All Souls', thereby putting Halloween into its Christian context.

Agree 100%.

Roman ampitheaters with gladiators and lions etc were punishment meted out to criminals by the Roman government. It had nothing to do with religion.
As for Norse paganism, it's a completely different culture. I don't engage with it.
Statues of Apollo, Venus , Ceres, etc celebrate beauty and joy, very life-affirming as opposed to torture scenes...

Statues of Apollo, Venus , Ceres, etc celebrate beauty and joy, very life-affirming as opposed to torture scenes...

On the surface, yes I can see why you say that. However for me, the blood of Jesus that he shed was for us. It was horrific, but then so were my sins and the sins of humanity that he died for. Because of his death and resurrection, salvation and reconciliation with God is now possible. Apollo, Venus, Ceres etc cannot give that, ever.