Christians - what exactly do you believe?

[beansmum]

I am a Christian but have been struggling with my faith recently, mainly because the Christians I know think sooooooooo differently to me. Somebody please explain things in a way that makes some sense to me!

I suppose I'm confused about all the usual things; sex, the Bible, other faiths etc.

I don't think they are locked up for eternity. I think when they physically die, they also spiritually die. Hell means a permanent separation from God.

I go to a evangelical/charismatic church which it is not right for me at all, but it is hard to leave. I am working on it.

beans which type of church do you go to, no church should discourage questions, they should be there teaching, encouraging etc

does it belong to an umbrella organisation like New Frontiers, Salt & Light, something along the lines of that?

It's a Scottish Episcopal Church (Anglican)but you wouldn't know it. It trys to be kind of interdenominational I think.

beansmum, you're mixing up me metaphors :D

I'm not suggesting murderers cannot be forgiven, I'm trying to illustrate one single point - that 'being sorry' isn't adequate in a situation of justice.

There are some pretty good mp3s and other articles here that might help with some of those questions.

And sorry, but anyone who tells you not to ask questions needs to be given a very wide berth.

I can ask questions, as long as 'because the bible says so' is an acceptable answer. I take the bible very seriously but I need more of a response than that.

I think you need to start again with the basics, beansmum. It's like you're trying to answer everything back-to-front, iyswim.

I'd really suggest you go back to find out what you believe about the bible itself - there are tons of resources out there to dig into about. Because for me, if someone shows me something from the bible, then I'm happy to believe it, because of what I already believe about the bible.

I can't give you an authoratitive answer about the Christian faith based on what I think, and you shouldn't flippin' well listen to me if I do. These questions can be answered a million different ways, by a million different beliefs. You need to nail down what you trust to give you the answers.

Because without that, you're never going to be satisfied with what you believe.

(None of this is meant to sound abrupt, btw, I'm not really in a good way today)

you are probably right, I don't know enough to really understand what I believe or why. ok where is a good place to start...

Haven't read the whole thread as only have a few MN mins this evening...

I believe in God, the creator of the universe, of all things.
I believe Jesus was his son, and I believe he died to demonstrate how much God loves us.

I also believe that peoples faith in higher beings have been manipulated by men forever for their own political means.
I am currently chatting to a lovely lady from Cambridge University who has just "written the bible" she has spend years going back to original texts and translating them.. this to me is fascinating as I do believe that things in the bible have been diluted / distorted with every new translation / modernisation.

I do not go to church every Sunday, I believe I can speak to God as much on the toilet as I can in Church (more so infact as I don't have a toddler on my knee whilst on the loo!)

With regard to other religions, I really believe we are all worshiping the same God, that God allows all these people to access his love in ways that work with their culture, this worked well before we all travelled internationally as much as we do today.

Well, the link I gave you is a guy who is very well-versed in manuscript evidence and original languages, that sort of thing, if you want to pursue that.

It doesn't take two shakes of a lambs tail to find the information from the side that doesn't believe the bible is God's word, so you shouldn't have trouble tracking that down and evaluating their claims.

Seriously, some of the most intelligent, logical people I know are utterly convinced of the truth of biblical Christianity. They didn't get that way by shutting their brains off.

If you want to pursue it, you can find those answers, and I absolutely agree that you shouldn't stop asking until you are satisfied with the answers.

Yes, theological debate is vital in order for more understandng, how can you follow a path if you do not understand why? Slavish obedience is not good.

Although I still don't understand "and the first shall be last and the last shall be first". No one has ever really explained that one to me so I "get" it.

It's related to the humble being exalted and the proud being brought low, Miggsie.

Sue
thanks, why could the vicar not tell me that!

lol

Hi, just read this thread and I have a question/problem about Christianity

I don't really understand how believing in Christianity is a choice - you either believe or you don't. You either have faith or you don't. How do you make yourself believe something you don't?

I am a lapsed Christian and I just can't believe in it anymore. I know the Christian teaching about having to believe in it in order to be saved. But I don't.

What I don't understand is why I should be condemned to hell when I just cannot believe. I would like to, I wouldn't like to go to "hell", whatever that may be.

I just don't get it. Faith isn't a choice. Some people believe and they're the lucky ones. Some don't....

You can't make yourself believe. You're either convinced, or you're not. You choose to act on what you're convinced by, iyswim.

If you're not persuaded by something, then I agree, you can't squish your head into it, not for very long successfully.

Well, exactly SueBaroo. I just can't get my head round why God would punish people for not believing when you can't actually make yourself believe. Doesn't make sense.

Beansmum - please don't believe that you have to switch your brain off to be a Christian - some of the questions you're asking here are ones which have caused Christians difficulties for the past 2000 years, so we can't give you very clear answers to some of them. But that doesn't mean we can't help you to think about the questions.

My own view on the "Hell" question is that I simply don't believe it exists - God gives us the opportunity of a relationship with him, and the promise that there can be something beyond this life. I believe that when those of us who are in a relationship with God die, we will somehow "turn up" in the new creation. Those who are not in that relationship just die. I don't know the status of people from other religions (or none) - Jews and Muslims in particular are a tricky question, as they also believe in the same God from the Old Testament. And what about Jews from before the Incarnation? All I'm sure about is that what happens is not about reward or punishment for not worshipping God.

I think for the more general questions, it helps me to keep a clear distinction between what Christians all broadly agree on, and the parts where there are a lot of varying opinions.

The Nicene Creed
The promises we make at baptism and confirmation to "renounce evil" and "turn to Christ"
Jesus's summary of the commandments "Love God and love your neighbour as yourself"
Respect for the bible, and trying to learn from it
And that we are saved by grace not works - the possibility of a relationship with God, and the promise that there is more than just this life, are there because God offers them freely, and not because we can earn them by being good or by doing good things.

Ways of looking at the bible - my apologies in advance for a theology lecture

You should realise that, while all Christians agree that the bible is important, we have very different ways of looking at it.

At one end of the spectrum are the scriptural fundamentalists. They believe in the bible very strongly as being the word of god. And by that, I mean, they believe that every word is there because God wants it to be there. It may have been humans who put pen to paper (quill to parchment?) but the words are as much from God as they would be if they had been given by dictation. There is still a little bit of "wiggle room" on some issues, because our understanding of God's meaning is imperfect, but apart from that we have to take it all completely literally.

Far aay at the other end of the spectrum are Christians who believe that the books of the bible were purely human attempts to write down and explain the history of humanity's relationship with God. They were inspired by events which God was involved in, and by prayers and visions, but the words are those of people attempting to understand and explain things of which their understanding was incomplete. We should therefore learn from their example, but consider it only as history and statements of faith.

And in between these two extremes are the rest of us!

For me, it is not "divine dictation" or just a history book. I believe that God did inspire the words in a fairly direct way, but by "nudging" the writers and editors rather than putting words into their mouths. Therefore, we should take it seriously, but also bear in mind that the various books were written by different people in different circumstances, and that some of what is contained in it was applicable to those people in a way that it does not directly apply to us.

You are asking the who why and what of what God thinks and his ways? I haven't got all the answers to that - I can only go by what we've been left - God's word - the bible, and prayer. (Perhaps God will show you the answers if you ask him?)
People in the past have had meaningful relationships with God its well documented in the old testament of the Bible - King David, the Prophets - but they were all spoilt by human failures (sins). The new way through Jesus allows us to be closer more like a Father-son/daughter relationship?

Sorry posted that before read last page - my brain definately turned off tonight lack of sleep. Ill go to bed.

Amuminscotland - that has really helped, thanks. I think I am just getting a little bit stressed and thinking I need all the answers right NOW. and if I don't have an answer for one thing then everything else must be a bit questionable as well. But actually I am absolutely certain about a lot of things and the other things, although important, are not reasons to reject Christianity.

Beansmum - glad it helped, I wondered after posting if I was just going off on one of my "channelling a primary school teacher" moments as I've been known to do

The other thing which I think you maybe need to hold onto is that what you're going through is actually very normal - you came to faith in a particular church context, and accepted the whole of their teaching as a "package deal". Now your faith and understanding have grown, and you're looking at it with a more analytical eye, and realising that it isn't all as inseparable as maybe it looked at first. I've met countless Christians who've gone through just the same thing, and please believe me it isn't a "crisis of faith" or "the devil tempting you", it's a normal stage. Some Christians when they look at the faith they've developed and the faith of the church they are in find it a really good match, and just put the whole thing down to "deepening faith" if they're aware of it at all. But you've found they really don't match up in big ways, and that's causing you a lot of concern. I'm not surprised, specially if the people at your church don't support and nurture your growing awareness and curiosity. Them saying "because the bible says so" just isn't a proper answer I'm afraid, and the fact that they say it suggests to me that they haven't really thought some of these things through themselves, or they could at least explain to you how they feel the bible answers the question.

I get more and more angry that they are being like this under the banner of my denomination, because they are generally a very inclusive and positive bunch .

Anyway, got to go now, but I'll check back in the morning. Hang in there!

Have you thought of trying a Christainity Explored Course? I did one, and it really helped me get everything straight in my head.

Questions are good - the course takes you back to basics.....which is good if you have loads of questions....and you want answers..