Christians - what exactly do you believe?

[beansmum]

I am a Christian but have been struggling with my faith recently, mainly because the Christians I know think sooooooooo differently to me. Somebody please explain things in a way that makes some sense to me!

I suppose I'm confused about all the usual things; sex, the Bible, other faiths etc.

didn't sound bonkers to me - but then I'm sounding a bit insane tonight anyway.

CarGirl - Do you think there are different kinds of hell? or does everyone, even the nicest, kindest non-christian, get chucked in together? I can't make sense of it.

The worst hell would be not burning eternally but watching it happen to your children -- but surely a loving God wouldn't let that happen to pay for someone else's sin..

thanks beans but am sounding very bonkers to myself

But what if your children weren't christians and you were? how could you be happy in heaven? I don't get it

But isn't 'Hell' simply not knowing God - for a christian I mean?

Beansmum someone on another thread a while ago described religion as "an account of mankind's relationship with God" which struck me as a very good way of putting it.

There are many Christians who do not take a literal interpretation of the bible, but see it, together with subsequent Christian writings, as an imperfect attempt to make sense of God - God being mysterious and only imperfectly knowable.

Does that help at all?

I suppose if I wasn't a Christian I would be die and then realise that God exists and that I am never going to have a relationship with him. and that would be hell. But its soooooo confusing to think about and I don't understand why God would punish someone who hasn't done anything terrible. I have lots of non-christian friends who are much nicer people than me, they do some wrong things but so do I. How come I get to go to heaven and they don't, why doesn't God just make himself known to them instead of punishing them for not believing in him. Especially when they may haev been brought up in a way which makes it almost impossible for them to become christians.

I know. My Dad is the kindest, gentlest man I know. He's an agnostic. What will happen to him? Must I believe it will be insufferable?

sorry, took me ages to write that post. that does help actually, I can't make sense of anything, but maybe that is because it's not possible. It's the attempt to understand and the personal relationship with God that is important. maybe.

aaarrgh. will go to bed and pray for a new brain. one that works. I am CONFUSED!

i am going to find out what Jesus himself says about hell
will report

i've googled.. it's scary
am bonkersing myself to bed now...

Hi, I've just seen this (I am a christian). So...hell...I am so glad that it is God who judges, not me or anyone else. He sees our hearts and judges on the basis of who we are, not what we do. There have been times when I've had to just say to myself, I don't know who will be in heaven. I think there will be some surprises! But there was a prayer I read once that really helped me on this isue: "Everything I know about God teaches me to trust Him for everything I do not yet know about Him."

So what I know about God is that He is fiercely loving, scrupulously fair, not even slightly impressed by outward shows of religiosity, deeply concerned for the poor and needy and infintely forgiving. So that gives me huge comfort and confidence that howeve much I love my non-christian friends and family, God loves them infinitely more and will judge them infintely more fairly than I ever could. Does that make me a liberal I wonder?

I'll try to come back later and tackle the one about the existence of evil, if you like. I really love getting stuck into some decent questions about the christian faith! Right now though I've got a summer dress to make for my lovely dd.

I'm sure when I was little that heaven was described as some kind of garden of eden where everything was bright and beautiful.
Now I am glad I don't believe since it's often described as doing nothing but looking at god and being grateful to him for eternity.

Now that might sound good as a sermon, but if you really stop to think about it does that sound like something you'd want to do for eternity?

Especially since (as someone said) you would know that every person you cared about who didn't do precisely the right things you did will be suffering in hell.

Some will say "oh but god is kind and will make sure your loved ones are there" but that would break the rules wouldn't it. Everyone has loved ones so that would mean everyone got in.

Oh and it does say "christians" in the thread title so feel free to skip my post and move on as I am not.

Roseylea I hope you do! This issue troubles me greatly and I'm glad Bean raised it. Any ministers out there?

I see God as a loving Father to all people- those believing and non-believing.

I've always imagined that when we die we all come fact to face with him and get a choice.
As a result I don't worry too much about my family and friends- they are in safe hands and I'm pretty confident he knows what he's doing and has a plan for us all

Hell is separation from God - you are either in relationship or not. If you accept Jesus as your saviour, and confess your sins, then there is no fear of Hell.

Satan is very real, but we must not have an over-inflated fear of him. When Jesus rose from on the third day, he conquered death and put Satan in his place.

Greyriverside, you do seem to have rather a child-like and literal-minded view of Christianity, and have taken some odd examples from the broad diversity of Christian beliefs. From your posts on other subjects I think you are a little more sophisticated than that, so I can only assume you must think that all Christians are similarly child-like and literal-minded. If you look a little more closely you may discover that this is not true, and that we atheists and agnostics don't actually have a monopoly on grown-up thinking and behaviour.

Ouch- that was a bit harsh

Well, my faith has taken some knocks recently, but essentially, I believe in one God who exists in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus died an atoning death for the sins of people who were His enemies. That's not what makes me a Christian, though, what does that is trusting that my sins were among those He died for.

Hell is a nasty, dreadful proposition, but so is sin, and I can't gloss over sin (no matter how much I try), so I can't really gloss over hell. I don't believe the idea that it's 'separation from God' alone suffices, either, because most of the people I know who don't even believe in God don't really find that a particularly compelling notion of punishment, really. And I do think the idea of hell is fundamentally an idea of punishment.

Of course, that all assumes a certain view of God himself, which is where Christians often disagree.

So basically, I believe in a God who is so holy and perfect He can't even look at sin. But because He is perfect, He is also love, and in that love, chose to take his absolutely appropriate anger about sin, and make a way to blot it out entirely for his people.

And Christians don't get to boast and point their fingers at other people's sins, because they are not one teensy weensy bit better than anyone else, and every bit of forgiveness and grace they have are freely offered to anyone who will have them too.

I don't know, maybe I've made it sound far too complicated, and if I have, I'm sorry about that.

But really, you can go round the houses wondering about sexual mores and other religions and so on, but that's the core of it - grace, free forgiveness offered to wicked people who really don't deserve it.

Stuufitllama (how on earth did you come up with that name??!!) I'm in the long process of hopefully becoming a vicar in the CofE, not that that means I've got all the answers (in fact the more I know the more I realise how much I don't know...).

MaryBS is a licensed lay minister in training...she might be along later!

Greyriverside I remeber reading one of my favourite christain writers (Adrian Plass, if anyone has heard of him) talking about his passionate love of cricket and asking a wise monk if there will be cricket in heaven. I can't remember the exact reply but it was along the lines of whatever is best on earth, most fun, most breathtakingly beautiful, most interesting and absorbing - mulitiply that exponentially and you start to imagine heaven.

Heaven is not described in the Bible as a passive or boring place - it's described as the best party of all time, with the best food and booze and definitely the best company as all broken relationships will be restored (just as all sick and old bodies will be replaced by new bodies that will never get ill or old). Another one of my favourite descriptions of heaven is in CS Lewis's book "The Great Divorce" where he desribes earth as all greys, black and white and heaven as full glorious colour. In one of the Narnia books he desribed heaven as the start of the greatest adventure anyone could ever have. Another person described earth as the movement of the symphony in a minor key (which is surely beautiful) and heaven as the movement in the major key, triumphant, happy and wonderful. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking life - I love my life! - and I have no death wish, but I do believe that what is waiting is way better than I can imagine!

SueBaroo this notion of sin as "falling short" (which is what the original word in Greek for sin means) really helps me understand the concept. In fact it is so obvious that we all fall short - of our own ideals, of our resposibilities sometimes, of our marrige vows if we are married, and certianly to the standards in the Bible (like the Sermon on the Mount). Some of us fall short in spectuacular, desctuctive ways (poor Britney for one) and most of us fall short quietly, in smaller ways but nontheless short of what we could and should be. Why else would we feel the need for New Years Resolutions if we did not fall short?

And actually as I've seen at close hand the work of the police I've come to see that judging the "naughty people" (as my dc call them) is so important and so much the God thing to do - because by locking up a serial rapist you are protecting women, by prosecuting shoplifters you are protecting shopworkers, by prosecuting those who drive recklessly you may well be saving lives. So sin is something that does need to be dealt with because it doesn't just affect you, it affects those around you and ultimately all of society (no man is an island and all that). So IMO it's good that God doesn't turn a blind eye to sin - He cares too much about the weak, the downtrodden, the vulnerable and those who can't speak up for themselves to do that. And that is who he calls His people to care about too. Big responsibility!

IorekByrnison, thank you for giving me some credit even while disagreeing with me

Often I find that I point to things that some religious people (not just christians) say they believe and the response from others is that it is silly and/or offensive. I can only point again and say "I didn't make it up, I'm just drawing your attention to it" It seems fairer to me to challenge someone on what they say religion is rather than some obcure point about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

SqueeeeBaroo has just pointed out one of those things for me.