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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Christians - what exactly do you believe?

138 replies

beansmum · 04/04/2008 21:31

I am a Christian but have been struggling with my faith recently, mainly because the Christians I know think sooooooooo differently to me. Somebody please explain things in a way that makes some sense to me!

I suppose I'm confused about all the usual things; sex, the Bible, other faiths etc.

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SqueeeeBaroo · 05/04/2008 14:03

Roseylea, I totally agree with what you said about protecting the vulnerable.

Greyriverside, you raise a really really interesting question, and I absolutely think you've got to the heart of the issue. Heaven in terms of 'happiness' is a wee bit inadequate when describing a Christian view, and, although simplistic, your previous description of heaven as being more about being with God than us specifically is right, and I imagine, quite baffling for people who don't believe in God.

I can't explain it in simple 'it will be like this' terms, because the bible says that it's beyond what we can conceive at the moment.

It's not an easy question, and every Christian has to face it sooner or later (or even repeatedly in my case) What do you do with the fact that some or even many of those you love will not be with you? The only answer I've come up with so far is that I will 'know as I am known' and I will understand. And as I won't know or fully understand until then, it's one of the things I have to leave there.

Now, that sounds really pat, but it's not a conclusion I've come to in vacuum. If I wasn't convinced of the rest of it, it wouldn't make a lick of sense to me either. And now I sound wishy-washy. I should stick to sci-fi

DutchOma · 05/04/2008 14:33

I think that in the end we only have responsibility for our own life, not for that of our children or anybody else we love. The Bible says that there will be no tears in heaven and so, if any of our loved ones are not there, I think we will not miss them in the joy of meeting with Jesus and having all our questions answered.
That leaves the question as to what you want to do about your own life. Do you want a relationship with Jesus, following in His footsteps, doing what He asks you to do, or not? It's entirely up to you.
The hymn says "I have decided to follow Jesus, no turning back". Of our own we are not going to be able to do that, we need God's grace. But again the Bible says:-"If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9
And Jesus says to Peter enquiring about what is going to happen to John:- "..what is that to you? You must follow me." John 21:22.

IorekByrnison · 05/04/2008 17:59

Sorry, Greyriverside, my post was a little snotty. Glad you got some thoughtful answers from Sue Baroo etc

slayerette · 05/04/2008 18:10

"God doesn't turn a blind eye to sin - He cares too much about the weak, the downtrodden, the vulnerable and those who can't speak up for themselves to do that."

Have been reading this thread with interest. I have many thoughts on God and religion but cannot get my head around how much suffering there is in the world (particularly suffering as a result of what insurance companies call Acts of God) - suffering of those very people Roseylea is citing above. How does this equate with a compassionate, loving God?

Not trying to be confrontational - genuinely looking for answers.

Roseylea · 05/04/2008 19:20

Slayerette, I'll try to give my best answer to that without being too long-winded! I know what you mean - seeing pictues on TV of floods in Asia, the tsunami in 2005, failed crops in Africa and all the pain and loss of life, and thinking "God, where are you in all this?" Or at least that's what I think.

Anyway, the way that I would answer it is this. One of the most important bits of the Bible is the very start, the book of Genesis, because that tells us a lot about our beginnings (which of course is what Genesis means). Whether you interpret it literally or as a metaphor isn't that important to me personally; after all metaphors are powerful linguistic devices used to reveal deep truths, so by saying that you read the Adam and Eve story as a myth you are not saying it is any less real, valid or powerful.

So Genesis tells us that people wre created to know God well, to be in a relationship with Him. In the Garden of Eden all was perfect until the eating of the fruit of the three of the knowledge of good and evil, that God and Adam and Eve existed in a purity and wholeness of relationship that was shattered at the point that both Adam and Eve did exactly what God had told them not to. I believe that what that was about, was that God is perfect, and by going against Him, people had ruined the relationship - not God. It wasn't His fault.

Not only was the relationship between the man and woman wrecked, and the relationship between both of them and God, but the 'ground' (the physical environment) was also cursed - everything from now on, from childbirth to farming, was going to be hard work.

So in christian belief the ills of the world stem from this point - broken relationships, alienation from God, and also the difficulties of the physical environment. So we see lots of the effects of this point - which Christians call the "Fall" - and IMO things like droughts and floods and failed crops are effects of the Fall. We talk about living in a broken world, and that means the physical world as much as the world of people, and of course as we are seeing more and more there is a very profound relationship between humans and the physical environment.

So going back to the original question, where is God in all this brokenness? Well I believe that He is still here, reaching out in love and mercy to people, restoring what was broken and wrecked by the Fall, through the sacrificial love of Jesus and the wonderful work of the Holy Spirit in people's lives, making all thing s new, which really means restoring things to what He originally intended. As far as the environment goes, I believe it is our responsibility to look after the world as best we can (i.e Christians should be e greenies!), and to help those in need - I've been an missionary in Asia and I've seen so much need, and tbh it can be overwhelming but to help one person or one physical area is so infintely more than doing nothing.

Errr...I've waffled, haven't I? I must say, my heart breaks when I see people in huge need, whether on TV or face to face. But I know that God loves them much more than I do, and is wanting to reach them - and because He is love He chooses so often to show His love through people. As I said earlier, a big responsibility.

Greyriverside · 05/04/2008 19:32

Iorek, no problem. I didn't take it badly and it was almost a compliment anyway.

Miggsie · 05/04/2008 19:41

I think Jesus knew there was suffering but was pointing out that it can be eased and we can rise above our circumstances, both by our own actions and by the actions of others (such as the Samaritan helping the beaten traveller)so he gives a message of hope.
About what you believe, my DD asked if Jesus had come back from the dead, and if so, had anyone else? So I said, no only Jesus has done that, as he is the son of God. Later a friend said I should have told DD that He may have returned from the dead but there is no proof, but I don't need proof, that is what I actually believe.
DD however is happy that only Jesus can do it and now "he is living with his daddy".

beansmum · 05/04/2008 19:41

I'm really not sure about anything now. The more I think about my faith the less sense it makes until I have more questions than answers and don't really know what I believe anymore.

I believe that God created everything and that he loves us all. That is the only thing I am totally sure about that but then practically nothing else in the Christian faith fits in. Personally, I want a relationship with God, and feel that being a Christian helps me achieve one. I'm not sure why/if someone who doesn't choose the Christian path to God, or isn't able to for some reason, is punished. Why is God so keen on us all worshipping him? He caused us to be born and then punishes us if we don't thank him enough.

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beansmum · 05/04/2008 19:53

That sounded really angry...I just feel like I'm being forced to accept things which I don't understand and I don't like it! I don't feel in control and that makes me go a bit loopy!

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ScienceTeacher · 05/04/2008 20:10

God doesn't punish us if we don't thank him enough. He is parent, desperately wanting a relationship with his children. Like any parent, if their children move away, all he wants is to have them back, and when they return he will lavish them with blessings. Think of the parable of the Prodigal Son.

To be in a relationship with God, all you have to do is acknowledge Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and confess your sins. Anything else you do will be under the power of the Holy Spirit - this is called Discipleship. When people become new Christians, their fellow Christians will pray for Discipleship in that person, so anything sinful from your old life will fall away and become less important. Your new life in Christ will gradually dominate. It is a process - it doesn't happen overnight, and it does happen as part of a Christian community.

OverMyDeadBody · 05/04/2008 20:26

Can I ask a few questions?

First of all, if God is like parent, why doesn't he protect his 'children' from harm the way we would protect our children? Why do bad things happen to little children?

Also, why did God create all of this in the first place? -People, the earth, space, the whole package- I've always wondered this in particular, but no one in RL has ever given an answer. Just wondering if any Christians have wondered this and what conclusions have you come to about it?

SqueeeeBaroo · 05/04/2008 20:29

beansmum, no one can force you to accept belief in anything. If you don't believe something, you either just say 'look, I don't believe that' or you could decide to dig further if it's something that matters to you.

It's entirely up to you, no forcing necessary. You're either satisified with the answers you find, or you're not. If it's any help, I have a few links that might assist you. But seriously - use your brain and keep using it, because I know from experience that if you just try and fudge over things without finding an answer that you're happy with, it will come back and bite you.

But there's no forcing, none at all.

ScienceTeacher · 05/04/2008 20:41

OMDB,

God created the world in order to be in relationship with us. He is a sociable God and yearns to be with others.

Bad things happen to people because we live in a fallen world.

StressTeddy · 05/04/2008 20:45

I have a question too - If God knew his son would be resurrected and effectively "come home" to be by his side forecer, why was it such a huge sacrifice to have him killed on Earth?
(I know he was subjected to torture and sadness but even so, God knew he would be alright in the end so why the big deal??)

beansmum · 05/04/2008 20:46

I wonder why he created everything too. and why he is happy to continue to have more and more people ending up in hell, although I'm not totally convinced about that, just to get a few more people in heaven to worship him.

Why do we only get lavished with blessings if we accept Jesus as our Lord? It does seem like non christians are punished simply for not believing.

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ScienceTeacher · 05/04/2008 20:52

Ah, Stress Teddy, the theology of atonement...

There are a few atonement beliefs. The main one (I think), which standard among evangelicals is that of penal substitution. When we sin, we put a barrier between us and God, and the wages of sin is death. When Jesus went through death on the cross, he took upon the sins of the world, and freed us to have a right relationship with God. When Jesus rose from the dead, he conquered death for all time. He could only do this if he were fully human.

Another atonement belief is about divinity and humanity being 'at one', so it was essential for God to become man.

OverMyDeadBody · 05/04/2008 20:53

Thanks ST.

But why does God let it continue to be fallen? Why doesn't he just change it? After all, he has the power to right? So why not make things better? Why not just end suffering or even take away man's capability to cause pain and suffering on others?

ScienceTeacher · 05/04/2008 20:53

Why do you feel that way, beansmum?

SmugColditz · 05/04/2008 20:55

"Christians, what exactly do you believe?"

Didn't this question, when last asked, cause 500 years of fighting?

ScienceTeacher · 05/04/2008 20:56

OMDB,

Because we have free will. We have to be free to please God or go against him - that is a sign of love. We cannot love something and also control it. If you love someone - set them free.

StressTeddy · 05/04/2008 20:58

oh scienceteacher you are wonderful. I am still a tad confused but thank you so much for your response. I now understand it better than I ever have before
And this from someone who goes to church every week and just sits through sermons questionning everything
It's good to qustion though and I feel that I am still gaining something from being there.

Beansmum, maybe that might help you? Questionning is ok I think even if you find it frustrating at times. You are still in the game trying to find out more and believe

OverMyDeadBody · 05/04/2008 20:59

Well yes but we didn't choose to have free will did we? God gave it to us, so why did he give us free will? And surely we could have had free will without some of the horrific things man is capable of, so if God had made it impossible for people to have paediophillic feelings that wouldn't have taken away our free will would it? It would have just meant lots of children didn't suffer needlessly.

I find this hard to get to grips with.

ScienceTeacher · 05/04/2008 21:17

ST.

Questions are good - keep them coming. I love being able to inspect my own beliefs when addressing other people's questions. It helps me grow in my faith.

Beansmum - you have to be able to ask questions at your homegroup - that's the whole point. These questions will be a benefit to the whole group.

ScienceTeacher · 05/04/2008 21:19

omdb,

Free will is a sign of love, and our God is a god of love.

beansmum · 05/04/2008 21:24

The question is could God have made a world in which there was less suffering but in which we could still exercise our free will? I suppose we have to accept that he couldn't or he would have.

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