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Any Jews around, a genuine question

155 replies

DreamBream234 · 07/05/2024 16:46

Im a Christian, and Im curious about Judaism.

Jews believe they are the chosen people and they dont encourage converts...so why were the rest of us created....what do Jews believe will happen to the goys (non Jews).

Christians, Muslims and other faiths preach their faith so that others may be "saved" why isnt this the case for Judaism....

OP posts:
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5
knitnerd90 · 23/05/2024 09:18

Jews aren't a race (which is a social construct and not a biological one). Jews are protected under English racial discrimination law but so are Sikhs.

Ashkenazi Jews, however, are an ethnic group with distinctive genetics and these can be tested for. (I believe Sephardic Jews can as well but Ashkenazim are well studied and known; it's theorised that we descend from only a few hundred people.)

The best way to put it is that Jews are a people, and Judaism is our religion. The two concepts are inseparable. But unlike a race, one may be adopted into the fold. A tribe would be a closer analogy.

DayIntarnishedarmour · 23/05/2024 10:37

knitnerd90. That makes sense. I wasn’t expecting my dna result to show what % Jewish I was.

Sorciere1 · 23/05/2024 14:23

I'm Ashkenazi (both sides) and years ago I had my parent's DNA done. I'm Natufian , neolithic Levant, on my father's side and Baltic on my mother's (Lithuania -Latvia) it's usually %60/40 or higher. We're all 5th cousins. All ethnic Jews are related. And we all have substantial DNA from the Levant.
A good comparison is being Hindu; it's a religion and ethnicity.

MostlyCloudyOut · 23/05/2024 15:39

SpuytenDuyvil · 23/05/2024 00:14

To answer your question, although it is a little rude, no, I was not raised Orthodox.

As stated, if you believe in Jesus is the Messiah you have repudiated the fundamental tenet of Judaism, which is that the Messiah has not come.

No offense intended @SpuytenDuyvil

I get what you're saying, but what if the Messiah has come and Jesus is actually who He claimed to be? If this were true then the person who believed it wouldn't be going against what is written in the holy scriptures at all.

So, you can completely reject the God of Israel, but if you accept Him (in the form of Jesus) then you're the equivalent of excommunicated? That makes no sense to me.

Have you read the New Testament, out of interest?

In John 5 Jesus said, "For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from people. But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

and in Matthew 22
"But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbour as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.
Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?

If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

SpuytenDuyvil · 23/05/2024 19:50

No, I have not read the New Testament because I am not the least interested in Christian theology; it's enough trying to wrestle with Torah. Judaism does not have "excommunication." If you believe in Jesus, you have left Judaism and we are OK with that. I do not believe that the Messiah has come. If Jesus is really the Messiah, then I and all Jews who have ever lived will have been wrong.

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 10:56

SpuytenDuyvil · 23/05/2024 19:50

No, I have not read the New Testament because I am not the least interested in Christian theology; it's enough trying to wrestle with Torah. Judaism does not have "excommunication." If you believe in Jesus, you have left Judaism and we are OK with that. I do not believe that the Messiah has come. If Jesus is really the Messiah, then I and all Jews who have ever lived will have been wrong.

it's enough trying to wrestle with Torah.
I'm sure it is* *@SpuytenDuyvil

Judaism does not have "excommunication"
I realise that, but in a similar manner, as others have said, Jewish followers of Christ are often despised, ostracised by their communities and told they're no longer Jews.

If Jesus is really the Messiah, then I and all Jews who have ever lived will have been wrong.
As we've established, not all Jews. There are around 350,000 Messianic Jews worldwide, with 20,000 living in Israel today - prominent Rabbis throughout history among them.

(Acts 13) These are the words of the Apostle Paul - a man from a devout Jewish family who used to persecute Jewish followers of Jesus before an encounter with God.

And on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of encouragement for the people, say it.” So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said:
“Men of Israel and you who fear God, listen. The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with uplifted arm he led them out of it. And for about forty years he put up with them in the wilderness. And after destroying seven nations in the land of Canaan, he gave them their land as an inheritance. All this took about 450 years. And after that he gave them judges until Samuel the prophet. Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. And when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king, of whom he testified and said, ‘I have found in David the son of Jesse a man after my heart, who will do all my will.’ Of this man's offspring God has brought to Israel a Saviour, Jesus, as he promised. Before his coming, John had proclaimed a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. And as John was finishing his course, he said, ‘What do you suppose that I am? I am not he. No, but behold, after me one is coming, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to untie.’
“Brothers, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation. For those who live in Jerusalem and their rulers, because they did not recognize him nor understand the utterances of the prophets, which are read every Sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him. And though they found in him no guilt worthy of death, they asked Pilate to have him executed. And when they had carried out all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead, and for many days he appeared to those who had come up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people. And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm,
“‘You are my Son,
today I have begotten you.’
And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he has spoken in this way,
“‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.’
Therefore he says also in another psalm,
“‘You will not let your Holy One see corruption.’
For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep and was laid with his fathers and saw corruption, but he whom God raised up did not see corruption. Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses. Beware, therefore, lest what is said in the Prophets should come about:
“‘Look, you scoffers,
be astounded and perish;
for I am doing a work in your days,
a work that you will not believe, even if one tells it to you.’”

(John 8) The words of Jesus, echoing Exodus 3 vs 14, "God said to Moses, “I am who I am. ”And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honour my Father, and you dishonour me. Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Yeshua Hamashiach is not the pagan idol you have been led to believe.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/05/2024 11:12

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 10:56

it's enough trying to wrestle with Torah.
I'm sure it is* *@SpuytenDuyvil

Judaism does not have "excommunication"
I realise that, but in a similar manner, as others have said, Jewish followers of Christ are often despised, ostracised by their communities and told they're no longer Jews.

If Jesus is really the Messiah, then I and all Jews who have ever lived will have been wrong.
As we've established, not all Jews. There are around 350,000 Messianic Jews worldwide, with 20,000 living in Israel today - prominent Rabbis throughout history among them.

(Acts 13) These are the words of the Apostle Paul - a man from a devout Jewish family who used to persecute Jewish followers of Jesus before an encounter with God.

And on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of encouragement for the people, say it.” So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said:
“Men of Israel and you who fear God, listen. The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with uplifted arm he led them out of it. And for about forty years he put up with them in the wilderness. And after destroying seven nations in the land of Canaan, he gave them their land as an inheritance. All this took about 450 years. And after that he gave them judges until Samuel the prophet. Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. And when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king, of whom he testified and said, ‘I have found in David the son of Jesse a man after my heart, who will do all my will.’ Of this man's offspring God has brought to Israel a Saviour, Jesus, as he promised. Before his coming, John had proclaimed a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. And as John was finishing his course, he said, ‘What do you suppose that I am? I am not he. No, but behold, after me one is coming, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to untie.’
“Brothers, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation. For those who live in Jerusalem and their rulers, because they did not recognize him nor understand the utterances of the prophets, which are read every Sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him. And though they found in him no guilt worthy of death, they asked Pilate to have him executed. And when they had carried out all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead, and for many days he appeared to those who had come up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people. And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm,
“‘You are my Son,
today I have begotten you.’
And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he has spoken in this way,
“‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.’
Therefore he says also in another psalm,
“‘You will not let your Holy One see corruption.’
For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep and was laid with his fathers and saw corruption, but he whom God raised up did not see corruption. Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses. Beware, therefore, lest what is said in the Prophets should come about:
“‘Look, you scoffers,
be astounded and perish;
for I am doing a work in your days,
a work that you will not believe, even if one tells it to you.’”

(John 8) The words of Jesus, echoing Exodus 3 vs 14, "God said to Moses, “I am who I am. ”And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honour my Father, and you dishonour me. Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Yeshua Hamashiach is not the pagan idol you have been led to believe.

How would you react if somebody were to inform you that you were mistaken and Jesus was just an albeit respected but ultimately purely human prophet & not the Messiah, plenty of other people have understood this including a number of clerics in the past and a Christian that persecuted Muslims before realising that they were right all along and if you'd only read the copy & pasted excerpts of their holy book, you'd begin to comprehend the scale of your ignorance and revert to the correct faith?

I think you'd probably find it offensive/the ramblings of a deluded soul/a challenge from evil forces that must be countered at great length. And then obviously get into a patronising copy & paste war with them.

SpuytenDuyvil · 25/05/2024 12:30

@MostlyCloudyOut Yes, all Jews because “Jews” that believe the Messiah has come are not Jews. You and I are done. I refuse to be proselytized under any circumstances and most certainly not on Mumsnet.

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 12:32

Heard it all before @NeverDropYourMooncup You learn to take these things in your stride after a while.

I say these things out of love, not to start an argument. God came to save the nation of Israel, His chosen people first and foremost, then the gentiles.

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 12:36

SpuytenDuyvil · 25/05/2024 12:30

@MostlyCloudyOut Yes, all Jews because “Jews” that believe the Messiah has come are not Jews. You and I are done. I refuse to be proselytized under any circumstances and most certainly not on Mumsnet.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Sorciere1 · 25/05/2024 14:45

SpuytenDuyvil · 25/05/2024 12:30

@MostlyCloudyOut Yes, all Jews because “Jews” that believe the Messiah has come are not Jews. You and I are done. I refuse to be proselytized under any circumstances and most certainly not on Mumsnet.

It's typical, I've heard it many times from both Christians and Muslims because they need us to convert to justify their brand of monotheistic religion. I believe this is the deep reason for endemic Western anti-semitism because they are afraid they might be wrong...

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 15:52

Sorciere1 · 25/05/2024 14:45

It's typical, I've heard it many times from both Christians and Muslims because they need us to convert to justify their brand of monotheistic religion. I believe this is the deep reason for endemic Western anti-semitism because they are afraid they might be wrong...

So you admit Christians are monotheistic!

I have no insecurities about the truth I'm also very far from being anti-Semitic.

Shabbat Shalom btw.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/05/2024 16:17

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 15:52

So you admit Christians are monotheistic!

I have no insecurities about the truth I'm also very far from being anti-Semitic.

Shabbat Shalom btw.

Depends upon which denomination you ask.

Ask some about their thoughts upon Catholicism and you'll get them referring to the intercessionary activities of Mary and the Saints as outright idolatry and polytheism, along with some very distasteful views about the Bishop of Rome.

Only Trinitarian denominations agree that Father, Son & Holy Spirit are three sides of the same deity - others reject that completely. Peter III of the Syrian Orthodox Church also (like your reference to Rabbis adopting Christianity) also simultaneously defended consubstantiality whilst this was declared to be tritheistic in in Alexandria and Constantinople. Other proponents of this position over the centuries included Sherlock and many other scholars of varying denominations - and as the teachings of the Latter Day Saints describe the nature of the Godhead as a council of three distinct Heavenly Beings, one in purpose, unity and mission, but still separate and distinct, as do 7th Day Adventists, it's certainly not something that is universally agreed upon amongst Christians.

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 17:06

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/05/2024 16:17

Depends upon which denomination you ask.

Ask some about their thoughts upon Catholicism and you'll get them referring to the intercessionary activities of Mary and the Saints as outright idolatry and polytheism, along with some very distasteful views about the Bishop of Rome.

Only Trinitarian denominations agree that Father, Son & Holy Spirit are three sides of the same deity - others reject that completely. Peter III of the Syrian Orthodox Church also (like your reference to Rabbis adopting Christianity) also simultaneously defended consubstantiality whilst this was declared to be tritheistic in in Alexandria and Constantinople. Other proponents of this position over the centuries included Sherlock and many other scholars of varying denominations - and as the teachings of the Latter Day Saints describe the nature of the Godhead as a council of three distinct Heavenly Beings, one in purpose, unity and mission, but still separate and distinct, as do 7th Day Adventists, it's certainly not something that is universally agreed upon amongst Christians.

Most of the mainstream Christian denominations believe in the Trinity. I would agree there is idolatry within the Catholic Church and don't recognise the authority of a Pope, but Catholics are still Christians. Latter Day Saints (Mormons) on the other hand are not generally regarded as a Christian denomination in the Catholic or Protestant churches as they don't share the core fundamental beliefs. 7th Day Adventists also have problematic doctrines which stray away from the Bible.

LoobyDop · 25/05/2024 17:56

Sorciere1 · 25/05/2024 14:45

It's typical, I've heard it many times from both Christians and Muslims because they need us to convert to justify their brand of monotheistic religion. I believe this is the deep reason for endemic Western anti-semitism because they are afraid they might be wrong...

Well, having read this thread I hope they are wrong. Judaism being right would appear to be my best chance of getting to heaven, the other two definitely aren’t letting me in.

Sorciere1 · 25/05/2024 18:30

This usually shuts them up from proselytizing Jews:
Jesus in the Talmud
Peter Schäfer examines how the rabbis of the Talmud read, understood, and used the New Testament Jesus narrative to assert, ultimately, Judaism’s superiority over Christianity.
^^
The Talmudic stories make fun of Jesus’ birth from a virgin, fervently contest his claim to be the Messiah and Son of God, and maintain that he was rightfully executed as a blasphemer and idolater. They subvert the Christian idea of Jesus’ resurrection and insist he got the punishment he deserved in hell—and that a similar fate awaits his followers.

Cover of Jesus in the Talmud

Jesus in the Talmud

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691143187/jesus-in-the-talmud

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 25/05/2024 19:13

As a Christian disciple of Jesus (who was, after all, Jewish), I feel a very close affinity to my friends who practice Judaism. We both worship the same Lord God Almighty - the God of the Torah and the Biblical Old Testament. I have celebrated Rosh Hashanah, Hannukah and Pesach including the ritual meal. I appreciate and honour the Jewish roots of my Christian faith. Anti-semitism grieves me and I stand with my Jewish friends during this time of increasing hatred.

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 19:35

Sorciere1 · 25/05/2024 18:30

This usually shuts them up from proselytizing Jews:
Jesus in the Talmud
Peter Schäfer examines how the rabbis of the Talmud read, understood, and used the New Testament Jesus narrative to assert, ultimately, Judaism’s superiority over Christianity.
^^
The Talmudic stories make fun of Jesus’ birth from a virgin, fervently contest his claim to be the Messiah and Son of God, and maintain that he was rightfully executed as a blasphemer and idolater. They subvert the Christian idea of Jesus’ resurrection and insist he got the punishment he deserved in hell—and that a similar fate awaits his followers.

This proves nothing, it's clearly ridiculous propaganda.

I'm with @Thegreatestoftheseislove

Sorciere1 · 25/05/2024 20:05

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 19:35

This proves nothing, it's clearly ridiculous propaganda.

I'm with @Thegreatestoftheseislove

The Talmud is the central text of Rabbinic Judaism and the primary source of Jewish religious law (halakha) and Jewish theology.[1][2] Until the advent of modernity, in nearly all Jewish communities, the Talmud was the centerpiece of Jewish cultural life and was foundational to "all Jewish thought and aspirations", serving also as "the guide for the daily life" of Jews.[3]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud

Modernity - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernity

knitnerd90 · 25/05/2024 22:17

What is with the proselytising? if you're Christian, do you spend your time worrying if Islam actually has it right?

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 22:25

Sorciere1 · 25/05/2024 20:05

The Talmud is the central text of Rabbinic Judaism and the primary source of Jewish religious law (halakha) and Jewish theology.[1][2] Until the advent of modernity, in nearly all Jewish communities, the Talmud was the centerpiece of Jewish cultural life and was foundational to "all Jewish thought and aspirations", serving also as "the guide for the daily life" of Jews.[3]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud

https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-based-teaching-from-israel/jesus-talmud-jesus-satanic-sorcerer

MostlyCloudyOut · 25/05/2024 22:32

knitnerd90 · 25/05/2024 22:17

What is with the proselytising? if you're Christian, do you spend your time worrying if Islam actually has it right?

It's called evangelising. We are following the teaching of Jesus when He said,
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Fiddlybells · 19/07/2024 23:57

Haven't read the whole thread, but a dear Jewish friend told me that theres more to this "Jews should follow more rules, it's hard, so why should we convert others" concept. He said Jews believe they're chosen to follow more in depth rules and be examplars because they're special people with a special vip relationship with God. Non Jews don't have the capacity basically. In olden times Jews believed they were more human and others were more animal. So being Jewish was also very much connected to ethnicity. Today reform Judaism etc has more progressive beliefs about converts but that's a relatively recent development and there's no denying, he said, there'd be a significant amount amongst religious jews believing in their ethnic and spiritual superiority. What was also surprising to hear was The help thy neighbour commandments being a Jews obligation to other Jews, not to non Jews. I'd like to hear others' viewpoints on these as they were hard to stomach, especially thinking about converts.

Thegreatestoftheseislove · 20/07/2024 11:21

Fiddlybells · 19/07/2024 23:57

Haven't read the whole thread, but a dear Jewish friend told me that theres more to this "Jews should follow more rules, it's hard, so why should we convert others" concept. He said Jews believe they're chosen to follow more in depth rules and be examplars because they're special people with a special vip relationship with God. Non Jews don't have the capacity basically. In olden times Jews believed they were more human and others were more animal. So being Jewish was also very much connected to ethnicity. Today reform Judaism etc has more progressive beliefs about converts but that's a relatively recent development and there's no denying, he said, there'd be a significant amount amongst religious jews believing in their ethnic and spiritual superiority. What was also surprising to hear was The help thy neighbour commandments being a Jews obligation to other Jews, not to non Jews. I'd like to hear others' viewpoints on these as they were hard to stomach, especially thinking about converts.

I can't believe that a 'dear Jewish' friend, genuinely, from a good place, made such pejorative remarks including "ethnic and spiritual superiority". It could almost sound antisemitic.

knitnerd90 · 20/07/2024 11:30

I would say that is a misinterpretation, and while I could believe that someone said it and believes it, it is not mainstream. More Orthodox people won't be around today, but the interpretation I was taught (in Orthodox and then Masorti synagogues) is that Jews were chosen for a special task, which does involve a more involved set of rules and higher expectations. So a would-be convert is discouraged because it's better to fulfil your role as a gentile completely than to fail to follow all the laws as a Jew. There is a minority opinion that the laws about saving a life, etc only apply to fellow Jews and not other people. This interpretation may have arisen during exceptionally antisemitic times. There is a famous misuse of it by the late writer Israel Shahak. It was refuted by no less than British Chief Rabbi Jakobovits.

But Jewish attitudes towards conversion have changed over time. Jews were more welcoming towards converts in ancient times (See the example of Ruth). As Jews became more oppressed, there was greater suspicion of anyone who wanted to join the Jewish people.