Any Jews around, a genuine question

[DreamBream234]

Im a Christian, and Im curious about Judaism.

Jews believe they are the chosen people and they dont encourage converts...so why were the rest of us created....what do Jews believe will happen to the goys (non Jews).

Christians, Muslims and other faiths preach their faith so that others may be "saved" why isnt this the case for Judaism....

"Messianic Judaism" is simply fake rebranding of Christianity. If you believe in Jesus you cannot be a Jew.
Jews are pure monotheists and regard the idea that God has a son as weird and blasphemous. The Talmud has Jesus burning in hell for it.
Jewish coverts to Christianity are pretty much despised by other Jews.

@blackcherryconserve I agree with you, but one of my close Jewish friends does not. She feels "goy" is demeaning, so I am careful not to use it around her.

I’m 100% Orthodox Jewish. My GPs came to the UK from Lithuania and Belarus. We were brought up by our DPs as atheists. I remember my DM being asked by her DM how the boys would known right from wrong if they received no religious instruction and didn’t have Barmitvahs. DM said, because she would teach them right from wrong. My DBs are the most honest, kindest, thoughtful men I know. They aren’t driven by wealth or status and are family focussed and caring. I was the only one of the family who married a Jewish man. He turned out to be a total crook, who fleeced my parents and me out of masses of money, was status driven, had the moral compass of a despotic maniac and the marriage ended up acrimoniously and with me ending up homeless. He embraced G-d after we divorced and now mixed with the ‘Frummers’ (very religious). You can follow the mitzvot while still having the morals of an alley cat. Many criminals in our community seem to have found Hashem after a spell at His Majesty’s pleasure . Maybe because it’s a mitvah for others to accept them.

we were told not to refer to non Jewish people as yoks, yachels or goyim, as my DPs said they were disrespectful and demeaning.

I mean the terms were disrespectful and demeaning, not the people.

Following in interest but I like what @Yougetmoreofwhatyoufocuson says

@DayIntarnishedarmour apologies if I've missed an explanation upthread, but how can one be 100% orthodox while being atheist? Or are you not atheist?

I don't want to derail the thread, but I have to disagree with the posters who say you can't be Jewish and believe in Jesus. Jesus was a Jew, He was called rabbi and taught in the synagogues. Many of His followers in the early church were Jewish, they did not appropriate anything. We serve the same God - Adonai - except Judaism is missing the other two thirds of the Trinity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christianity

@MostlyCloudyOut Someone can believe that Jesus was a person and be Jewish. They cannot believe in Christian theology and be Jewish. It seems really obvious. I can't understand why this is posed as a "disagreement." Christians are not Jews. They are Christians. It's a fact.

I'm Jewish and my understanding was that the idea of being the 'Chosen People' was to 'chosen' to set an example of goodness to the rest of the world (which I have to bitterly laugh at somewhat) - as people have said, being 'chosen' is a responsibility, not about being inherently superior in the wider world. But there are probably people here who know more about it than I do.

Yes, the people saying this just use it as a way of drawing Jews in with 'It's OK, you can be a proud Jew and believe in Jesus' but the idea is always to get them to be baptised as full Christians down the line.

Yes, Jewish people may still remain identified as Jews on an 'ethic' levels if they believe in Jesus, but what they are practising is Christianity and not a 'type of Judaism'.

KikiShaLeeBopDeBopBop · Today 10:43
@DayIntarnishedarmour apologies if I've missed an explanation upthread, but how can one be 100% orthodox while being atheist? Or are you not atheist?

My parents DGPs, DGGPs are genetically Orthodox Jewish. My DNA test came back as 100% European Jewish. My DPs were brought up going to synagogue, barmitvahed, keeping Kosher but were rebelled against such a strict religious upbringing that me and my siblings were given no religious instruction, didn’t attend synagogue and we didn’t keep kosher or observe any of the festivals. I am proud of my heritage and respect those that have faith, but personally do not believe in any higher being or feel any need to observe the festivals. I love the values of family, the importance of education and taking care of those around you.

I'm ethnically Jewish but a polytheist and you cannot be a religious Jew and polytheist. Same with Christianity.
I suggest you read Bart Ehrman's works to have a good idea how marginal historic Jesus was. He was the modern equivalent of that weird guy in the park who tells you the world is going to end soon.
Mainstream Jews of Jesus' day never heard of him and only outliers followed him. That's the reality.

Are you suggesting that Christians are polytheistic?
I think you'll agree that Jesus isn't so marginal these days!

Judaism is NOT Christianity minus Jesus. Christianity is NOT a continuation of Judaism.

There are two types of "messys" - 1. Christians who decide to appropriate Jewish culture, like doing a Passover seder, and 2. people born Jews who renounce that to follow Christianity. As usual, there is different opinion whether the second can still be considered Jewish. That Jesus was a Jew has no relevance to his followers' Jewishness.

Yes, they have become distinct, but Christianity has it's foundation in Judaism - Christians share the same scriptures as the Torah in the Old Testament. The word Christian simply means 'follower of Christ', which means 'anointed one' i.e. the Messiah.

Secular Jews with no belief in God are still accepted as Jewish, so it isn't accurate to say that belief determines whether or not a person is Jewish. I see no reason why someone born a Jew but who now follows Jesus cannot continue observing the traditional festivals, such as Passover - they are still relevant.

https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-based-teaching-from-israel/why-dont-many-jewish-people-accept-jesus-as-messiah/

Isaiah 53
Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2
He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7
He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8
By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10
Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11
After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

https://www.gordonconwell.edu/blog/jesus-in-the-old-testament/

Following "festivals" does not make someone Jewish. DH is a big fan of pizza and we eat it regularly. It does not make him Italian. It is dishonest to contort the words of Torah to suit a Christian agenda.

Following "festivals" does not make someone Jewish

I agree. Genetically I couldn’t be any more Jewish. I’m proud to be Jewish and I support the existence and rights of Jews everywhere. I don’t observe festivals and wasn’t brought up following them. I can observe Christian festivals if I wanted to but wouldn’t make me Christian. I could convert and be Christened I suppose but I don’t feel that just observing Lent, Easter, Christmas etc would make me Christian.

I'll give you another quote.

'He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy'.

After all, Muslims reject the idea that Jesus was anything more than a prophet - from their point of view, it could be argued that Christians have rejected their improvement and idolised a man to the status of deity. But Christians don't seem to want to accept that 'upgrade to the Word of G-d' either, do they? Some might find the idea that the same book means they would be making a silly fuss about not being smart enough to 'realise' the newer ideas being bandied around are better rather offensive (and frankly, going by what they did to Cathars and Gnostics on the grounds of heresy and between denominations throughout history, being offended isn't the half of it).

Just to keep on the subject of things that mean you're no longer Jewish. Can you be gay and Jewish when the Mitzvot forbids it? Is it between you and your God or could you just change to a branch of Judaism that is more liberal?

There is no Pope-like figure or administrative authority that says you are no longer Jewish if you don't follow the mitzvot. You can change streams to find one that suits you better.

Judaism never forbids "being gay." Judaism, or at least Orthodox Judaism, forbids certain sexual acts. The desire is not a sin. Most gay people do find it more socially comfortable to belong to a more liberal movement however.

You're still Jewish if you don't perform the mitzvot. Something like converting to Christianity is different because it's apostasy; you're actively repudiating the fundamental basis of Judaism. If you go eat a cheeseburger on the other hand, you're just not fulfilling all the mitzvot that you should be.

Following "festivals" does not make someone Jewish.

That's correct, I was only using festivals as an example because of a pp.

It is dishonest to contort the words of Torah to suit a Christian agenda.

What exactly do you think is being contorted?

@SpuytenDuyvil Are you Orthodox? (not being goady).

Very funny! @NeverDropYourMooncup
from their point of view, it could be argued that Christians have rejected their improvement and idolised a man to the status of deity. But Christians don't seem to want to accept that 'upgrade to the Word of G-d' either, do they?

I'm not very familiar with the Quran, so unsure what improvements you mean? Christians believe Jesus is God in human form (who has been around forever, not just for 2000 years or so).

Something like converting to Christianity is different because it's apostasy; you're actively repudiating the fundamental basis of Judaism.

How so? @knitnerd90

To answer your question, although it is a little rude, no, I was not raised Orthodox.

As stated, if you believe in Jesus is the Messiah you have repudiated the fundamental tenet of Judaism, which is that the Messiah has not come.

JanglingJack
A friend of mine way back Uni identified as Jewish due to his bloodline... He liked gummi bears, copious McDonald's burgers and masses of weed. So I got very little insight from him, other than he was Jewish. Well,
That lead me to believe that Jews were a race. Like White, Black, Asian (I am so sorry if those are the wrong terms, I am so thick in many ways!). I'm confusing myself now. But now I only know them as a religion?

My ancestry.co.uk DNA test said 100% European Jewish. I expected it to show % of parts of the world, I was not expecting it to give a % of Jewishness. So I’d have to conclude we are a race . I know all DGPs and DGPs were Jewish and came to the UK from Lithuania, Belorus and Poland.

I meant DGPs and DGGPs