Any Jews around, a genuine question

[DreamBream234]

Im a Christian, and Im curious about Judaism.

Jews believe they are the chosen people and they dont encourage converts...so why were the rest of us created....what do Jews believe will happen to the goys (non Jews).

Christians, Muslims and other faiths preach their faith so that others may be "saved" why isnt this the case for Judaism....

Murder (but not all killing is murder) is in a particular category of sin called yehareg va'al yaavor, which is something that you're supposed to die (or let yourself be killed) rather than do. Any other mitzvah can be suspended in the case of pikuach nefesh, to save a life (obviously the details of this are complicated! For example my rabbi told me to carry my phone on Shabbat because it's the receiver for my CGM.) But murder, idol worship, and certain sexual sins are the exceptions. I'm not sure you can do full teshuva for murder, because in order to do teshuva, you need to ask mechila (forgiveness) from the person you wronged, and how could you do that? Strictly speaking murder makes you liable for the death penalty, but the Talmud (the collection of rabbinic discussions that thrash out the meaning of the Torah) makes it practically impossible to impose.

Judaism is rather hazy on the afterlife -- it's often oversimplified to Judaism doesn't have a hell, which is not true. But the idea is that if we focused on it too much, you'd observe mitzvot for the wrong reasons.

There's two things that you are thinking about.

A limited number of people go to heaven as they are anointed.

But everyone can go to paradise to on earth if you are a JW hence why they want people to convert over.

Sillysarnies
An idol is anything that comes between you and G-d. It doesn't matter what it's made from. One of the reasons that Jews rejected Christianity is the idea that you need someone between you and G-d and certainly the statues of Jesus on the cross etc that you see hanging in churches (mostly Catholic I think) would, to a Jew, be a form of idolatry.
So my thinking is, in modern times we often measure the value of a person by their success, success is measured by monetary value, gold, silver and diamonds, ownership and display of this acquired wealth is for the person to say "look at me, I'm better than you", people then hold these people up as "false idols" because they have acquired all that wealth. This ties into my question of diamonds because how the rock is cast (shaped) increases it's value into something that people "worship" which then becomes and "idol" between them and their G-d. I hope that makes sense.

I understood (from Jewish friends) that no one can convert as a true Jew is only born of a Jewish mother. Thats it. Thats the only way to ensure the legitimacy of the bloodline. This is where the racial element plays in I would imagine. The Law of Return recognises this.

It's not about sailing per se, "goyishe naches" would cover anything that is just doing something enjoyable for the sake of pleasure or frivolity. Something being done with no depth or meaning to it.

When Jews live an orthodox or observant life, more or less everything is done with intent and meaning.

But also take into account that Yiddish was the language of Jews who were at that time living in Eastern Europe, and that gave a certain culture and flavour to thought. And as you say it's kind of tongue in cheek, it's a bit like 'how the other half live'

This is wrong. Converts are fully accepted as Jews.

Among different streams of Judaism there are different requirements to be Jewish (passed on through mother/father, raised with Jewish tradition) and similarly there are different requirements for converts too. A convert to, eg, Reform Judaism may not be considered Jewish in Orthodox circles.

There is a thought that a Jewish convert already had a Jewish soul.

Really interesting article @sandwichscramble. This quote from the Torah, that God said “The work of My hands are drowning in the sea and you want to sing praises?”, which is cited in it has given me food for thought today.

This is completely false on both counts. There is one small community that doesn't recognise converts (the Syrian Jews of the US and Argentina). Everyone else does, though depending on the stream, it can be quite difficult. In the United States, Reform Judaism recognises people with one Jewish parent, either mother or father, as long as they were raised Jewish.

The Law of Return only requires a single Jewish grandparent.

They believe the earth will become a paradise so only whatever number in heaven abut everyone else on a perfect earth.

I don’t believe that is a reason why Jews rejected Christianity. The early Christians
didn’t necessarily have statues or stained glass images etc of Jesus. Some Christians denominations don’t have any of that that as well even now.

Christians believe Jesus is a form of God. He’s not just someone standing between you and God.

The Jews (most of them) rejected Christianity simply because they don’t believe Jesus is the Messiah and Son of God.

The idea that Jews “rejected” Jesus and Christianity is a Christian myth that grew out of the necessity for Christians to explain how their supersecessionist religion had failed to fully incorporate the parent religion: Judaism. Christianity posited itself as completing Judaism and replacing it. But Judaism does not see Jesus and his followers as having actual religious significance.

For an excellent book on this subject read Constantine’s Sword about the early Christian church and its relationship with the Jews.

So these two jumped out the Mitzvot at me last night, but I was too tired to ask.
66. Not to converse with wizards.
(Deuteronomy 18:11)

67. Not to do sorcery. (Deuteronomy 18:10) but Harry Houdini, was the son of a rabbi, David Copperfield (David Seth Kotkin), and David Blaine, and David Roth, and Max Maven. And Ricky Jay. And Raymond Joseph Teller, of Penn and Teller are all Jewish. It was Penn and Teller that leapt to mind. So in a literal sense magicians are wizards that do sorcery, so has something been lost in translation or is there a different meaning historically?

Magicians perform clever tricks. Not sorcery.

And even if you find some Jews performing sorcery, I don't see your point? You will always get people from a group who don't follow the religious dictates of that group.

The JAQ (just asking questions) poster is …odd to say the least.

Your DH is misinformed -

https://jewsforjesus.org/learn/what-are-messianic-jews

[From Jewish Voice Ministries]
How is Messianic Judaism Different than Christianity? One of the most common questions we receive is, “What is the difference between Messianic Judaism and Christianity?” The key to better understanding the differences between Messianic Judaism and Christianity is to first understand the foundations of both religions as they spring from Judaism.

1. Jewish people are descendants of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and acknowledge Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as the patriarchs of Israel and the Jewish people. Historically, Jewish people have not acknowledged Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah promised to Israel.
2. Christians are typically non-Jews who have responded to Yeshua in faith to experience spiritual rebirth and reconciliation to God.
3. Messianic Jews are people of Jewish heritage who maintain their Jewish identity and acknowledge Yeshua as the Messiah.

Differences between Messianic Jews and Christians:
Once you understand the history of Judaism, Christianity, and Messianic Judaism, you can begin to dive deeper into the similarities and differences between Messianic Jews and Christians. Here are a few of the major differences between the two.

Biblical text
Messianic Jews and Christians both embrace the entire Hebrew Bible and the New Testament as Spirit-inspired Holy Writ. However, many Messianic Jews continue to live by the first five books of the Bible, called the Torah, something most Christians do not do.

Sabbath
Messianic Jewish people observe the Sabbath, or Shabbat, during the traditional Jewish time starting before sunset on Friday evening until Saturday night. While there are several theories on when the Christian church deviated from the traditional Jewish day of Shabbat, Christians have been observing the Sabbath on Sundays since the second century.

Holidays
Christians observe holidays that are disconnected from the Bible, like Christmas and Easter Sunday. While Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus (Yeshua) and Easter Sunday celebrates His resurrection, the timing of these holidays historically corresponds with pagan holidays. Messianic Jewish people also observe the resurrection of Yeshua from the dead, believing His resurrection is evidence of His finished work in conquering sin and death for us. Messianic Jews generally celebrate Yeshua’s resurrection on the the first day of First Fruits, the first day of the week after the "weekly" Shabbat after Passover. Additionally, Messianic Jews observe the traditional Jewish holidays and feasts such as Purim, Chanukah, the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah), and the Feast of Booths (Sukkot).

Dietary Laws
Most Christians do not observe the biblical commandments regarding dietary practices. These include the avoidance of scavengers of land or sea, with the exception of mammals that both chew the cud and have cloven hooves, like sheep, goats, and deer. For many Messianic Jewish people, the basic biblical commandments found in the Torah are still observed. This observance enables Messianic Jewish people to maintain their God-given identities as Jews.

The Messiah and the Jewish People
While there are many similarities between Messianic Judaism, Christianity, and Judaism, Messianic Jewish people embrace their Jewish heritage, while believing that Yeshua is the Messiah, the promised Redeemer of Israel and all of mankind.

Yes, "Jews" who believe that Jesus is the Messiah are Christians. They have appropriated Jewish rituals, etc., (see above) but, factually, if you believe that Jesus is the Messiah you are not Jewish.

But the original Christians were Jews who believed Jesus was the Messiah. There are Christian sects who do follow the eating rules, Sabbath etc. They wouldnt say they are Jewish.

That's a Messianic site. Of course they make that claim. One of the few things Jews agree on is that while some Messianics were born Jewish, they aren't practising Judaism, and most of them aren't Jewish. They can make as many claims as they want but the community does not accept them or their beliefs.

The specific organisation "Jews for Jesus" is a christian missionary organisation. I believe it's backed by Baptists.

They might not be widely accepted by the Jewish community but many of them were born Jewish, keep to Jewish traditions and observe Jewish festivals while also believing that Jesus (Yeshua in Hebrew) is the mashiach, as prophesied in the holy scriptures.

No, Messianic "Judaism" is NOT Judaism. They have appropriated Jewish rites, words and rituals but no Messianic "Jew" is Jewish. They are Christians. Q.E.D.

But this is where it gets confusing to an outsider, you say it's not Judaism so which version of Judaism is the right one as there seem to be a lot of different branches?

I am not saying it's not Judaism. It's just not. People who believe the Messiah has come are Christians, no matter how many times they say, "Shalom." There is lots of information available at reliable websites. As I stated above, Messianic "Judaism" is not Judaism. It is not one of the traditional streams, which I think is quite clear.

I phrased my question badly for which I apologise. Say a person is born to a Jewish mother but then practices Messianic Judaism later in life, as it may be faith that resonates with them the most, how can they no longer be "Jewish" as religious practice is not the sum total of being Jewish?

You can live a Jewish life in many ways, but not as a Christian. If you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, you are a Christian and, therefore, have ceded your Jewishness. Your mother may have been Jewish and you may have lived a Jewish life, but, like any kind of conversion, once you change your beliefs you are not the thing you were.

OP 'goy':is a term in Yiddish to denote a non Jew. It is not intended as discriminatory as mentioned up thread!