Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

I have no idea. I'd need to read more about the art work and about Blake's work in general in order to have any detailed understanding of what he was trying to convey.

My question was to ask you what you meant by referencing that particular picture in the context of this discussion.

Well a picture speaks a thousand words. Maybe the starting point is to this about my comment about your choice of quote. Why did you miss the art half? The fact you split the quote says everything.

I chose the pictures because their symbology and what they represent encapsulates my views far better than words ever could.

Well, for those of us that are ignorant, you may well need to use some words to explain what the symbolism means to you and what point you want to make.

Perhaps just imagine that I used the whole title, believe me I'm regretting not, and that I wrote do you agree with Blake that Art is the Tree of Life. Science is the Tree of Death?

But thats the point. Sometimes things are beyond words, beyond rationality. That is the whole point of symbolism and art, it creates something inside that isles impossible to verbalise..

But yes I agree with Blake that science is of the material, art is of the divine

But of course these symbols mean much more than that. To help you understand what Blake was truly saying you need to immerse yourself in the same influences he did to awaken something inside yourself that’s beyond speech, Beyond thought. I can point you in the direction of Christianity. Norse mythology, Kabbalah,neo pkantinism and Boehme’s spiritual alchemy. Spend some time there then revisit the full quote and you will see what I mean about how interesting that you automatically just chose half the quote. I think that explains everything in this thread perfectly. As Blake said. Los howled as Urizen was rent from his side. Or as Yeats’s motto went Demon est Deus inversus

I think the point of art and symbolism
is to bring things that are are as yet impossible to verbalise closer to being more easily described and expressed.

In its own way, science does a similar thing.

These things don’t stand still.

It’s interesting that those who believe in science also have a hope of future revelation.

it’s based on the belief that this framework holds the ability for omniscience granting humans omnipotence.

The wheel just keeps turning.

It’s another point of reference for a perennial philosophy.

God and I could sit and have a conversation. I still wouldn’t believe in worship.

that is the fundamental difference between religion and atheism. I can accept that there might be beings out there that control my life, I just don’t see why they would be my superior. We can only see the universe from our own perspective right now, but given enough time, humans can learn and evolve.

So you’re agnostic and don’t subscribe to certain belief systems

It’s interesting that those who believe in science

Science is not a belief system!

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

(Neil deGrasse Tyson)

Saying there is more to know is not the same as saying that humans will be omniscient or omnipotent. You’ve drawn a false equivalence there.

If you want to have a serious philosophical conversation you need to be a bit more rigorous in your thinking.

LOL. You're not very good at this 'explaining things' malarky, are you.

lol, you’re not very good at this symbolism malarkey are you?

@Lalupalina ""The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

(Neil deGrasse Tyson)"

Yep. This.

Oh I’m extremely rigorous in my thinking - how rigorous are you in your understanding?

Well that quote does nothing to exclude the possibility of God. You could say “the Good thing about the Divine is he exists whether you belief in him or not”

Well I believe it is. It’s a framework through which you view and understand the world

@Kdtym10 " You could say “the Good thing about the Divine is he exists whether you belief in him or not”

You could- if you didn't my get the point.

Science requires proof, religious belief requires faith. Scientists don't try to prove or disprove God's existence because they know there isn't an experiment that can ever detect God.

Not my words but agree. I work in facts and proof and have no evidence of any god.

Evidence please

Ah, I see that you have fallen into Robinson's Fallacy.

No it was a convenient statement of truth😀

Have you been following the thread and the fact “evidence” is personal when it comes to the divine!

it really does seem a sticking point the need for a shift of mindset

Yes, I’ve been following (and contributing to) this thread (in and out).

I think your response sums it up. “Evidence is personal”.

Game over.