Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

I think (I know) there are things we don’t yet understand. But that does not mean we can reasonably make assertions in the absence of evidence. Spirituality should be disconnected from any belief system. It’s about certain experiences generated by the brain - so reducible to science in that sense.

I think a general consensus would be my proof.

If you read a science book or maths book in any country or any language the consensus is the same. If you read a religious book this is not the case.

What are you hoping for in participating?
Not at all. Why do you wish it was?
Therefore what are you looking for when you talk about backing up claims?
Put together, your post appears to be trying to shut down the debate. Why is that?
Maybe you can explain further?
What are your views on the position that scientific style evidence is not possible on spiritual matters?

So many questions to us, so few answers from you.

I don’t think anyone is going to change their opinion based on this thread. I’ve been an atheist for my whole life - now in early 50’s. Can’t see anything changing.

I think we’ve exhausted the idea I don’t think scientific proof is relevant when it comes to spirituality

So are we talking about how we feel rather than anything tangible and/or provable?

We can say we feel spiritually connected to our deity/faith/culture/nature etc and no one could prove you didn’t feel that way. But we are very provably connected to gravity, in that if we open a window and chuck something out, it will be visibly and provably subject to that force. If you see a woman/man/child/cat etc and are sure they/it is a divine and a god, then that is how you feel, think and for you this is a definite. As an atheist, I’m not sure how there’d be evidence to back this up as it’s so nebulous. The fact that a person can move their body on command and sit and debate, could be enough for you to deem them divine, god. There’s no way I can tell you you’re wrong and there’s no way you can tell me or prove you are right.

I don’t think anyone is going to change their opinion based on this thread.

I have never believed that a god existed, but this thread has only strengthened my view.

Having come to this thread with an open mind and a lot of curiosity, I am disappointed that all these claims about a supposed god have been unsubstantiated . There is not even an attempt to try to explain their claims - any discussion is simply ended with "it's all in my mind and/or my dreams and cannot be measured or observed"?!

I think I’ve been very forthcoming- what questions have I missed?

For me, anyway, that wasn’t the point of the thread.

@Kdtym10 "For me, anyway, that wasn’t the point of the thread"

What is?

I answered this a few posts back

But that is spirituality. I’m not sure, what proof were you hoping for? Or do you feel that you have experienced things which makes it really important to you that God doesn’t exist?

Absolutely this, which is why I’ve been confused as to the comments about “this thread hasn’t converted me”.

The question is a personal one and the answer likely different for each individual as to what (if anything) would cause you, as an individual, to believe in a God. It might be you would need something tangible or it might be an inner revelation.

Have you ever looked into the concept of a perennial philosophy? For me, that kind of answers the general consensus point (although, of course, it might not for you).

There’s lots of disagreement in the world of science too.

From what I remember, Aldous Huxley was an obnoxious git and the Perennial Philosophy could easily be replaced with a shipment of those aphorisms you used to get in fortune cookies and automated fortune tellers. I don't recall ever hearing Huxley's voice, but this load of facile guff should be read in slow, sonorous tones reminiscent of the Wizard of Oz when using his voice machine.

I'm quite surprised, @Kdtym10! Most of your references are, if only tenuously linked to points under discussion, worth a look.

"The0loGies shAre UnDErLyiNG c0nCeptS And are ALL MySTIcaL" is hardly the insight of the millennium. Granted, it probably sounds more convincing if you use the Portentous intonation.

As of January 2024, approximately 30 percent of people in Great Britain said that they believed in a God / Gods, compared with 37 percent who had no belief in God / Gods at all.
Source - Statista.com

30% still too many! France is 25%. I've always liked France 😎

Lol, your posts are quite amusing now. You do realise that the concept of a perennial philosophy exists outside of A book by the genius Huxley.

Supercilious

Setting the record straight for a goady poster.

At least I've succeeded in being "quite amusing" this time. Most of my efforts go unappreciated!

These conversations are so circular, Kdtym.

"Perennial philosophy": The Divine is a big, unifying force that links everything somehow, underlies everything, is immortal & infinite, alpha omega, etc.

Science: Has different names for unifying/underlying/linking forces and would question the concept of immortality, but, basically, yeah.

PerPhil: The human spirit can consciously interact with said force, in pursuit of desired outcomes.

Sci: The human brain can consciously examine said force(s) and, by discovering the natural laws affecting it/them, can predict outcomes.

PerPhi: Pure spirit is way better because, by getting the interactions right (something about emanations and harmonies here), the interacting human can perform magic.

Sci: Not sure what you'd call nuclear fission, the creation of new elements and new states of matter, space telescopes that can see to the beginning of time, the harnessing of electricity and radio waves, disease control and gene therapy? It's not magic but scientists seem to be getting the results you've been chanting for thousands of years to get.

PerPhi: See? It works!

Sci: Okay, then. If it makes you feel better - please keep emanating/vibrating for scientific exploration to succeed.

PerPhi: Now you're being sarcastic. It's because you're Unawakened and have no soul. You're too closed-minded to understand the Divine is a big, unifying force that links everything somehow, underlies everything, is immortal & infinite, alpha omega, etc.

[Edited to remove unintended visual effect]

One useful definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing, expecting a different result. I'll own my madness. It's been fun, but I'm out 😎

If it helps I’ve been laughing at many of your posts, so long and thanks for all the fish

Perennial philosophy, does not create machines , does not make kettles, does not make micro waves, Science does.

Not an atheist so maybe not the thread for me but...I believe the only way to faith is through the Holy Spirit. Conversations where people try to prove they're more right or more rational or talk about hypothetical unicorns etc.etc. can go on forever & have nothing to do with knowing God. That comes from the Spirit.

not wishing to be rude about anyone's beliefs bc I don't " proselytise " (i see it as an open invitation, not for me to push on others) but that's the reality anyone with faith will describe and it's only really going to happen if you're at least open to it... So... what's the point?

but the problem is there is that many religions and that much copy and pasting of events that it seems it truly is faith to hope that some or even one may be explaining god etc

??

Could you rephrase (sorry)

Personally I'm a Christian so can't speak for orher religions but Jesus is not "copy and pasted". Religions have things that are very different and also probably a lot in common but I dont understand the rest of your comment.