Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

The concept of heaven and hell is a scare tactic to keep everyone compliant. If people adopted some common sense they’d quickly realise it’s 100% ridiculous.

I agree with this. I've got to say, @Kdtym10, that Unit 731 page is macabre. I hadn't heard of it before. Am shocked at what seems to be continued dismissal by the US and Japanese governments.

If we accept that most people are neither wholly kind nor wholly cruel but can be manipulated into cruelty with depressing ease, then religion is one of the means by which they can be manipulated. We're pathetic creatures, really - as pack animals, we'll go quite a long way to be accepted, gain peer approval, and defer to authority. That 'all together' feeling you get in a football crowd, at a demonstration or a packed concert, etc is visceral and we know it can lead to extreme behaviour.

I've got no magic answers. I'm heavily in favour of teaching critical evaluation and independent thought. Even so, we are what we are because consensus usually keeps us alive longer. You can't train the pack instinct out of humans, only hope to modify it a little.

Big ideas like religion and nationalism can create powerful bonds between huge numbers of people. They can be constructive or destructive; that depends on the leadership. Unfortunately, power attracts more destroyers than helpers.

Name one good thing he is alleged to have done?

@Lalupalina do you go for health screening? Because at the point of being invited there is likely to be a lack of evidence for anything being remiss...but we go for screening to explore further. Further than we could discern for ourselves with our usual 5 senses.

It's the same with God. There is a process of 'seeking Him' before receiving further revelation.

Sorry, you’ll need to explain that differently,

Ok, I'm saying that the lack of evidence for anything (e.g. a God), provided there’s no other good explanation for this lack of evidence, is evidence for its absence, that there is no God.

@Lalupalina do you go for health screening? Because at the point of being invited there is likely to be a lack of evidence for anything being remiss...but we go for screening to explore further. Further than we could discern for ourselves with our usual 5 senses.

Yes, of course, and in the same way we look into our bodies with MRI machines we use various means to look for evidence of a divine creature.
Either we find evidence (of disease or a God) or we don't

I've never really given it much thought as it's obvious there is no proof for something that doesn't exist.

Neither have I, but it was fun thinking about it!

@Lalupalina

Yes, of course, and in the same way we look into our bodies with MRI machines we use various means to look for evidence of a divine creature.

but with seeking God you have got to seek Him using spiritual practices. Have you prayed to Him? Asking for His direction?

The health screen analogy doesn’t work.

Why?

A health screening is a scientific procedure. Nothing to do with faith which has zero scientific validity.

Hardly! In my view, all those things that - funnily enough - just can’t be tested in a scientific or logical way, whether gods, ghosts, or flying pink uniforms… just don’t exist.

I can still respect people’s entitlement to their faith, even if I’ll never share it.

@Parker231,

A health screening is a scientific procedure
A health screening result is not conclusive in itself. Further tests are needed to confirm anything. There does need to be a faith of sorts that anything minor found would not resolve itself naturally without medical intervention given time. So we do employ a type of faith with medical treatments. Especially cancer treatments which are not without significant risk. (As I have mentioned previously I have undergone cancer treatments myself).

The health screening analogy really, really doesn't work. I don't understand how anyone thinks it might.

Your oosts are providing examples of the ‘mental gymnastics’ mentioned by posters early in this thread.

Why?

Even taking into account that 'spiritual practices' have some equivalence to an MRI scan 🤔 you are aware that almost everyone had a religious education throughout their formative years? We've all prayed, sung hymns, heard the gospels, heard sermons. As children, most of us believed the stories.

I'll go a bit further. Many of us do 'spiritual practices' in the form of mediation, therapy, journalling, yoga - running and other forms of exercise are 'spiritual' for many; creative pursuits can be, too. And gardening!

We are neither stupid nor shallow. It's that we have looked where you looked, and didn't find what you found. We found other things elsewhere.

It’s faith in medicine and technology for medical screenings not any religious faith. (DH is a doctor).

Understanding that medical science has limitations and hoping for the best about one’s health are nothing like religious beliefs.

Why thank you! It's good to be mentally as well as physically fit!😉

I didn’t have religious instruction in school years. Separation of church and state should be in every country.

It’s faith in medicine and technology for medical screenings not any religious faith. (DH is a doctor).

@Parker231, so you admit a kind of faith is needed then. Good. Nice to know you are at least honest with yourself. 🙂

Milgram’s experiments inform us about people’s obedience in the face of someone with authority. An effective society places checks and balances on those in authority.

It doesn’t say anything about whether people are good or evil. Unless you’re suggesting that the majority of citizens in 1940s Germany were evil?