Does anyone feel like they took the red pill?

[Barbarbarann]

DH and I are active Christians. I was having an interesting conversation with DH the other day and we were talking about how being saved and following Jesus feels like we took the red pill from the Matrix. It feels like our eyes are opened to how evil is operating in the world and you can't unsee it. I feel like we are in an age where evil is deemed good and good is deemed evil and we are the only ones that can see it and others are mostly blasé, heads in the sand or mislead.

I wonder if anyone else out there feels that too? When I mentioned it to some ladies at a Bible study yesterday - I was met with blank looks. I am not some militant, Bible-thumping conspiracy theorist either, just someone who quietly reads their bible daily and prays.

I know some amazing "active" Christians who dedicate their lives to making the world a better place. Their faith is a huge motivator for them, but they are humble and open-minded, and would never claim to have all of the answers.

You sound like the very worst kind of Christian that I've had the misfortune to encounter. Smug, delusional and frankly pretty ignorant. I'm not surprised that your comments were met by blank looks by the people at your bible study... they were probably really embarrassed for you and didn't know what to say.

You carry on in your self-righteous delusions, though. It must be amazing to feel that you're so much better than everyone else.

Tricky...texts get messed about with. For example, a lot of stuff was edited out from the bible during the 2nd council of Constantinople: the doctrine of reincarnation was declared heretical. There can be huge gaps between what someone like Jesus or Buddha or Guru Nanak taught and what the ensuing religion practises.

Not in the same context as Christians

I'm aware of that, but your post was inaccurate.

Jews are awaiting the Messiah, Christians and Muslims acknowledge Jesus as Messiah but have different understandings of it.

And you're right that the majority of people believe what they're taught as a child, but in today's world there is huge amount of information available for those who want to make up their own minds. Is it arrogant to hold a belief? Any belief potentially contradicts someone else's, and the basis of having an opinion is "I think this is right".

Well thank you for bringing a little pedants corner to life

I didn't say it was arrogant to hold a belief. My post was about the arrogance of assuming that your belief is the only one that can be correct when in many cases it is often only your belief due to location or family history.

It is possible to both have a belief and accept that others beliefs may be the correct ones.

It is also possible, although apparently not for the OP, to believe that you can see the evil in the world and not automatically assume those around you can't

I've not seen the Matrix so the red/blue pill doesn't mean anything to me. It's been fascinating to read the responses to @Barbarbarann's OP. My goodness, the amount of personal venom thrown at them is uncalled for, and tbh I'm not surprised they've not returned. Clearly the OP is a metaphorical 'what if' and the opening to what has been an interesting discussion.

From a Christian perspective, the Bible tells us that when we come to faith in Christ Jesus that we will 'see' and 'hear' with a new understanding that comes from God via the Holy Spirit. Their eyes were opened anew to the things that work against God's perfect plans. That is my take on what Barbarbarann was saying.

there in lies the problem , humans trying to control other humans

Well thank you for bringing a little pedants corner to life

Um... I think you'll find it's quite important to quite a lot of people.

I didn't say it was arrogant to hold a belief. My post was about the arrogance of assuming that your belief is the only one that can be correct when in many cases it is often only your belief due to location or family history.

But this is my point. If you believe the earth is round for example, you're saying flat-earthers are wrong.

And don't assume that people aren't capable of thinking for themselves. There's a lot of diverse thought within and between different faith traditions. Plenty of people convert to and from different faiths.

Tbh you're the one sounding a little arrogant.

Sure, but most of us don't actually buy into the notion that Christians see or hear with an understanding that is any different to anyone else's. If that were really the case, surely Christians would be inspired to behave in a way that was morally superior to others, and that clearly isn't born out in practice - they're no better than the rest of us.

What's the point of having a better understanding or insight into "God's perfect plans" if these alleged advantages bear no reflection whatsoever in actions/conduct? What's the evidence that Christians are better at "seeing evil" when they are as guilty of perpetrating evil as anyone else?

You're shocked by the venom that has been directed towards the OP. Do you not think it's just completely inevitable that people will challenge the presumed moral authority of Christians who put themselves on pedestals when our lived experience of their behaviour simply doesn't support that? Do you not see how it comes across as unbelievably arrogant and lacking in self awareness to presume that you somehow have more insight into right and wrong than other people?

The arrogance voiced by the OP is breathtaking. Of course people will respond to that in a negative manner. Believing yourself to be superior to others is never an attractive quality.

I didn't perceived arrogance nor superiority nor lacking in self-awareness nor presumptuous-ness in the OP.

'moral superiority': As their eyes have been opened by the Holy Spirit, Disciples of Christ Jesus are very aware of their lack or shortcomings. Question: Could it possibly be, could we maybe consider that it is those who are so personally rude to the opening poster who are acting in a superior manner?

Mmm well if you’re saying you are seeing reality as it really is, I’m not sure you are! You seem to be concentrating on what you see as “bad”. It sounds as though you’re seeing the world through the lens of fear.,

if you really had taken the red pill you would realise everything you’re describing is an illusion. An illusion often created by organised religion.

Cleanse your doors of perception then you will see the infinity of true reality.

The fact that you didn't perceive it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

If people whose eyes have been "opened by the Holy Spirit" are so much more aware of their lack or shortcomings than the rest of us, could you explain why they aren't motivated by that enhanced awareness to address those shortcomings? Surely the evidence that would back up the claim of enhanced awareness should be directly observable in the superior conduct of those who have been blessed with such insights? So why isn't that the case?

I don't think I'm superior to the OP in the slightest. I just don't agree with her perception that she is superior simply because she says so.

Religious people, regardless of which God they serve, believe they have the truth.
That in itself gives them a feeling of superiority over the non believers.
It's no good denying it.
They can't help it.
They will only see the error of their ways if they wake up.

I know this this because I used to be one

Love your user name btw.

True, but the same could be said vice versa.

No, I can't explain the thoughts or actions of others. I am aware that folk claim the label 'christian' and the Bible tells us that we will know Christ's disciples by the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. The Bible also warns us of false teaching and wolves in sheeps' clothing. I think the thoughts of 'superiority' are not helpful. I am a disciple of Christ and I HOPE that makes me humble of spirit, but also makes me bold in the Truth. It is not arrogant nor superior to know what we know.

I was not suggesting for one second that you think you are superior. I do not agree with you regarding the the statement that the opening poster perceives themselves to be superior. As this debate is now several pages long, I guess it would be good if @Barbarbarann returned to expand a little more on their opening post - but can understand why they may be reluctant.

Thank you re the username. Big JA fan!

I am not sure what you mean when you say that the same could be said vice versa. Non-religious people don't generally claim any monopoly on morality in the way that religious people do, because they believe that concepts such as right and wrong are fundamentally human. Religious people are as human as the rest of us, so they are equally capable of doing both good and evil.

You say that you don't think the OP perceives herself to be superior, but she explicitly says that Christians (or maybe only some Christians?) are the only ones that can see good and evil, and that others are "mostly blasé, heads in the sand or mislead". That is effectively saying that she considers herself to have a better insight into right and wrong than others, aka she thinks that she is morally superior.

Of course, she is entitled to think that if she likes, but she can reasonably expect to be challenged by those who inevitably won't share that perception.

But I agree, it would be great if the OP could come back and explain her perspective further, and tell us all about how she is using her rare insights into good and evil to make the world a better place.

Non-religious people don't generally claim any monopoly on morality in the way that religious people do, because they believe that concepts such as right and wrong are fundamentally human.

No, but they do often claim intellectual superiority and imply they're a bit superior to people who are 'brainwashed'. Some of them, not all. I don't really see the need for all these sweeping generalisations tbh.

Being forced to read her novels at school spoiled Jane Austen for me, sadly.

I'm not going to try and interpret the opening poster's ideology, but was merely giving my understanding of what was said. It is true that when I came to faith it opened my eyes to the harm caused by things that the world finds acceptable and that to which, previously, I wouldn't have given a second's thought.

What sort of things did you find acceptable that you no longer do since finding religion

@Horrace me personally? It was not seeking any vengeance! Don't get me wrong I'm not and wasn't ever physically fighty at all but paying back people's bad treatment of me...cutting them off or bad mouthing them or being awkward about cooperating with them on anything. So actually being considerate of enemies.

Hi Horace.

Pedant's head and a need to be clear: I have not "found religion", but have come to faith in the living Christ. They are different concepts.

Such a long list, but a couple of little examples: holding onto grudges (I've now been able to find forgiveness in my heart); telling lies such as I'm not coming into work today because I've got a cold/been sick (when I'm perfectly well and all I wanted was a day off)

Not sure that's anything to do with finding Christ.
I think you will find that many people don't hold grudges or lie.
Me for one.
I certainly don't hold grudges. That has developed as I've matured. I let things go. Life is short.
I might tell the odd white lie but that is usually to spare someone's feelings.

When I was Christian I was quite opposite. I would say that was partly down to the feeling that I was superior but also my immaturity.
I just get frustrated that some people with faith believe that one of the ancient books (take your pick) can teach humans right and wrong.
It's insulting.

@Horrace why are you insulted? Regardless of religious belief people believe all sorts of things, have all sorts of world views. Do you require control over people's thoughts to be happy.

You said it you life's too short.

But maybe it is worth considering people might actually be sticking with their faith because they feel blessed and are thankful. Rather than it being something that is fear based.

And as such they acknowledge blessings.🙂

I just get frustrated that some people with faith believe that one of the ancient books (take your pick) can teach humans right and wrong.
It's insulting.

You see, I don't understand why you would get a bee in your bonnet about that. Our civilisation was built on Judeo-Christian values. Why not acknowledge that instead of getting defensive? In some cultures it would go against honour to let go of a grudge. Yes there's a basic 'hardware' that comes naturally, like helping and being empathetic. And you don't need 'religion' to be a good person. But people spend whole lifetimes considering ethical questions, religious texts etc. Do you really think you just sprang up fully formed?

As for 'take your pick' - well obviously as a Christian, Christ is central to me. But there's a lot of wisdom in other religious traditions. Probably because we're all seeking the same thing.

(Edit for spelling)

@Horrace Not sure that's anything to do with finding Christ

Your question was what I found acceptable prior to coming to faith in Christ and that I no longer find acceptable. The limited examples I gave you about my own behaviour have everything to do with my faith in Him.

When I was Christian I was quite opposite. I would say that was partly down to the feeling that I was superior but also my immaturity.

When you say you were a christian and you felt superior, I would respectfully suggest that had nothing at all to do with Christ, but more, ego. Perhaps you are looking through your own lens of feeling superior and seeing superiority in others where there is none? After all, Christ Jesus is clear in His teachings about being humble of heart.

...It's insulting.

God knows you are insulted. I would disagree that guidelines to live by are insulting but can understand why some folk rage against them.