Does anyone feel like they took the red pill?

[Barbarbarann]

DH and I are active Christians. I was having an interesting conversation with DH the other day and we were talking about how being saved and following Jesus feels like we took the red pill from the Matrix. It feels like our eyes are opened to how evil is operating in the world and you can't unsee it. I feel like we are in an age where evil is deemed good and good is deemed evil and we are the only ones that can see it and others are mostly blasé, heads in the sand or mislead.

I wonder if anyone else out there feels that too? When I mentioned it to some ladies at a Bible study yesterday - I was met with blank looks. I am not some militant, Bible-thumping conspiracy theorist either, just someone who quietly reads their bible daily and prays.

It's pretty easy to see the bad in the world without being religious, especially since some of that evil is perpetrated in the name of religion.

Lol, this confused me, I had to look up which was which. Surely any religion is the blue pill?

@Happyinarcon I would go further and say prostitution isn't limited to sex work. Anywhere where a service is sold without actually caring about the welfare of those service users, in any genuine way, is a form of prostitution. Especially when business models create perceived need by erroneously persuading prospective service users they have a dysfunction.

Lol, this confused me, I had to look up which was which. Surely any religion is the blue pill?

Well quite. It wasn't referred to as the opium of the masses for nothing. Adopting a belief which reassures you that there's a higher plan, someone in benign control and that if you follow what you're supposed to do, you will have a lovely afterlife... Doesn't sound very red pill.

Surely it's a bit blinkered to think you are right. Does that mean all the other non believers / other religious people are wrong? Isn't it just a simplistic way of viewing the world. People are far more complex than good and evil.
Tbh OP you sound a little bit thick.

@Kernackered depends on your starting point...

It's about being prepared to learn and have an existing world view challenged.

@AndThatWasNY

Doesn't sound very red pill.

Dealing with your own shortcomings...Doesn't sound very blue pill...

Op it's not about seeing it, we all see it, what are you actually going to do about it?

It is perfectly possible to live a secular life and abide by strong moral values.

Also, many of the rules in the Bible have more to do with the social context of a largely agrarian society over two thousand years ago where everything depended on the family unit and assets (animals, tools or grain) being passed down to a son. Homosexuality or adultery would disrupt that chain and be threats to that way of living. Or sex outside marriage, where the parentage of any resulting child would be unclear.

Does this mean that young Christians should be pressured into forming a rapid or early marriage in the 21st Century just so they can have sex? No, because almost zero harm is likely to arise from them having safe and consensual sex outside marriage.

Were they possibly just confused because they hadn’t seen The Matrix?

What I'm noticing here is that OP hasn't come back to share her examples of what she perceives as evil viewed as good. I think that might be quite telling.

I agree with the issue of prostitution, up to a point. Only up to a point because you can't change human nature, so there will always be those who want to buy sex. What you can do is reduce the harms as much as possible by cracking down on people trafficking, legislating so that sex workers have rights to pensions, paid holidays, healthcare etc. and then at the same time attacking the problem from the other side, i.e. making it socially unacceptable to use sex workers.

I also agree that the wider commodification of everything is a huge social problem - I just don't think religion is the solution, given how we have this thing called the Prosperity Gospel and given how many people we have currently in power who call themselves Christians and yet commodify everything without a hint of a social conscience.

I feel like we are in an age where evil is deemed good and good is deemed evil and we are the only ones that can see it and others are mostly blasé, heads in the sand or mislead

Im very sorry to say this but you don’t sound very well at all.

No, because almost zero harm is likely to arise from them having safe and consensual sex outside marriage.

@BadSkiingMum, well it's not the end of the world but a lot of heart ache and emotional upset can occur if the partners have entirely different expectations of a relationship (with regards to commitment for example) albeit the sex might be consensual.

@pointythings aye, Christians and churches full of them are by no means perfect.

@pointythings,

What I'm noticing here is that OP hasn't come back to share her examples of what she perceives as evil viewed as good. I think that might be quite telling.

That old red pill takes some digesting doesn't it?

The solution for that is communication and assertiveness, not religion and abstinence.

My parents did not have sex before marriage (not for religious reasons, it just wasn't the done thing). They also didn't have the kind of sex education that's available now. Turned out my mother had a medical problem that made having sex impossible for them and it nearly ended their marriage before it had even begun. It was only because my mother took the enormous step of seeing a doctor that it was resolved. Education, communication and asserting boundaries are the key here.

The solution for that is communication and assertiveness, not religion and abstinence.

@pointythings, yes, marriage (the institution) is not a sticking plaster. However, real marriage is real partnership, true union, it goes deeper than the institution of it. I would agree communication is key. Assertiveness? At times, yes, but it must be kept in balance with consideration.

@heyhohello I agree with you up to a point, but assertiveness is a key part of communication - it's about making it clear to a partner what your boundaries are and I think a lot of couples get this wrong at the start of a new relationship. Then there's the inevitable fact that in any long term relationship, both partners change and so those boundaries need to be renegotiated and the balance of power maintained. Consideration absolutely is important, but as someone who didn't do enough assertiveness and allowed consideration to slide into enabling (life with an addict will do that) I'm now advocating for more assertiveness.

@pointythings ah. I think my background is a bit different. I was quite assertive in many ways from quite a young age. Although I was often shy too (interesting combination). Needless to say the assertiveness didn't leave me and I would find ways to assert myself by not conforming. However consideration has been more of a challenge for me. 😉

So hence consideration is up there (at least for people like me). Let's just say there has to be a balance. 😁

Thinking back conforming used to be difficult even when I was trying. I remember at school being petrified of being 'told off' and the rule being to wear plimsolls inside and shoes out. Except we were in a mobile classroom. We had to go to the main hall in the main building. Aaaargh! Shoes or plimsolls? My hesitation caused me to get a smack from the teacher. ☹️

Wow, I'm so glad I grew up in the Netherlands where any kind of hitting of pupils by teachers was banned in 1835.

@pointythings

Tbh it didn't hurt it was a quick tap. But I was mortified! Felt completely embarrassed and ashamed. She probably thought nothing of it. However, she did have a reputation for being overly harsh and I remember several incidents. The parents ended up getting together and complaining.

I feel like we are in an age where evil is deemed good and good is deemed evil and we are the only ones that can see it and others are mostly blasé, heads in the sand or mislead.

You sound like a conspiracy theorist banging on about sheeples and the great reset and how people need to open their eyes

@heyhohello
No one is saying that young people should rush into sex or have sex with someone who is patently wrong for them, but what is the harm of two young adults forming a relationship, enjoying each other’s company, having sex when they feel the time is right and then eventually going their separate ways if it doesn’t work out?

Millions of adults have followed this life path and are entirely moral and upstanding members of society. In many cases, far more moral than many ‘Christian’ people, whose names I won’t be bringing to this thread.

I was brought up very strictly and sex before marriage was a big no-no. It was portrayed as a source of shame, disgrace and danger. When I did have sex I was amazed that literally nothing happened - no one knew, the clouds didn’t open, I wasn’t walking around with a ‘whore’ sign above my head, my values hadn’t changed and I was still a well-behaved young woman studying hard, volunteering and wanting to do some good in the world. Sex before marriage was one of the least consequential decisions of my life.

In the wait-until-marriage Christian model young people are far more likely to rush into a decision with huge implications (marriage) because they are influenced by the far less significant but entirely natural factor of sexual desire.

Religious does not necessarily equal good.
Christian does not necessarily equal good.
Secular does not necessarily equal evil.
There are no red and blue pills.

NB. I had sex with the young man who later became my husband and father to my DC but I managed to do this without any reference to religious values, funnily enough.