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Philosophy/religion

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Trying to be a Christian... any tips?

497 replies

HeroicMinute · 02/01/2024 18:58

I've just started listening to the Hallowed app. The first thing I've come across is a Routines course, which is great for me as I am horrendous time waster, which probably explains why I haven't spiritually evolved.
I was raised loosely Christian and attended the village church as a child. I think I want to replicate this traditional experience, but with some slightly more intellectual content.
I've been thinking about Christianity for a few years, and have tried a few different churches, but nothing's stuck.
My reasons for not sticking at a church:
-I can't handle a church band, it all seems very nice and worshipful but it makes me cringe a bit. I love a choir.
-I am very opposed to modern identity politics and didn't go back when a vicar started talking about structural racism in the church.
-I stopped going to an evangelical church because the curate was sweet and excited about his Christianity but did lengthy sermons suitable for children with no analysis or intellectual stimulation.
-found a curate at another church a bit creepy.
-found the sermon in a big popular church on 8th October to be a bit antisemitic.

You get the picture; I'm a bit of a PITA and I'm obviously putting up barriers. Don't get me wrong; I'm not a particularly intellectual person but I am curious and I sincerely want to be a Christian. I don't yet believe properly, sometimes I do, well I suppose I usually do, but with varying levels of conviction.
Any tips would be very gratefully received.
Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
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eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:18

@Kdtym10 it's difficult for me to perceive exactly what you mean by your posts since the language and terminology we use is different. I can see some commonality in our beliefs on the surface. However I don't know whether my translation of what you say is accurate. We certainly have some very different practices.

Do you have a particular issue with people questioning the authority of the Jewish mystic?

I believe everyone has access to God's authority through The Holy Spirit. I believe everyone struggles in their perceptions sometimes and misses God's leading.

I view Paul in the same light. I am respectful of what he said and take it seriously, as I believe God was working in him and speaking through him. I think there is a reason he was called and his writings survive in the Bible. However, I also think he wore his heart on his sleeve (as far as I can see) and sense the struggles he experienced through his writing. Which makes me feel compassion towards him as we all experience struggles.

So I do have an issue with someone judging Paul as having nothing at all valid to say.

pointythings · 11/02/2025 19:21

So I do have an issue with someone judging Paul as having nothing at all valid to say.

I don't think anyone is doing that. It is however valid to point out that a fair amount of what Paul said is extremely problematic in relation to how it is used to subjugate women. I also think that his comments about women speaking in church have a strong air of misogyny about them - and of course that kind of thing was much more accepted in his day. But it isn't now, which is an example of how faiths need to adapt to the time they live in.

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:22

Is hardly revelatory.,

@Kdtym10, surely if truth is truth it will be seen across different contexts? Does that stop it being revelatory?

Kdtym10 · 11/02/2025 19:33

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:22

Is hardly revelatory.,

@Kdtym10, surely if truth is truth it will be seen across different contexts? Does that stop it being revelatory?

The way I was using the word would be to disclose something that was previously unknown.

For Paul to add any value I would expect him to reveal something new. Why does the church hold him in such regard if all he is doing is repeating widely known information - what is his importance? He obviously went through a great enlightenment for himself. Go on any Facebook occult group and you will see the same thing playing out. Paul’s modern day equivalent is some incel whose had some visions whilst doing ayahausca starting a you tube channel

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:34

@pointythings I imagine the passage which was quoted upthread regarding women being silent and modest dressing was in response to some probably fairly hefty criticism and heckling aimed at Paul from the women he was unsuccessfully attempting to teach. Let's face it they would have had plenty of ammunition considering the person he was before his conversion. What he said does have relevance in terms of treating teachers respectfully and not engaging in one upmanship with regard to physical appearance. Unfortunately, yes, it has been used to subjugate women. However, I think you have to look at the other things Paul said (for example the passage in Galatians concerning unity I quoted upthread) too in order to get a better idea of a more complete message. So I'm not sure it is about the Christian faith adapting but more about gaining an increasing appreciation of context and nuance in the message.

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:36

The way I was using the word would be to disclose something that was previously unknown.

@Kdtym10, known to you perhaps but maybe not to others. Or maybe not known completely enough. A reinforcement of emerging views can still be revelatory.

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:39

@Kdtym10

Paul’s modern day equivalent is some incel whose had some visions whilst doing ayahausca starting a you tube channel

I don't like the reductive terms labels you use for people. It suggests they are beyond hope, beyond redemption with no fragment of good in them.

Kdtym10 · 11/02/2025 19:43

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:18

@Kdtym10 it's difficult for me to perceive exactly what you mean by your posts since the language and terminology we use is different. I can see some commonality in our beliefs on the surface. However I don't know whether my translation of what you say is accurate. We certainly have some very different practices.

Do you have a particular issue with people questioning the authority of the Jewish mystic?

I believe everyone has access to God's authority through The Holy Spirit. I believe everyone struggles in their perceptions sometimes and misses God's leading.

I view Paul in the same light. I am respectful of what he said and take it seriously, as I believe God was working in him and speaking through him. I think there is a reason he was called and his writings survive in the Bible. However, I also think he wore his heart on his sleeve (as far as I can see) and sense the struggles he experienced through his writing. Which makes me feel compassion towards him as we all experience struggles.

So I do have an issue with someone judging Paul as having nothing at all valid to say.

And that is the crux of the matter isn’t it, why did Paul’s writings survive to such an extent? I believe the reasons are two fold.

But first you have to look at who made that decision, The decision was largely made by men, non Jewish men who saw the value in having a unified new religion the could shape and apply across the known world.

So how did Paul fit into this? He was a convert. He said this Jewish cult wasn’t just for Jews it was for everyone)good when the majority of people you’re hoping to convert aren’t Jews). Quite a few of the areas that were to be subject to this religion actually had a strong history of female priestesses, goddess worship and magical and healing women. Paul’s misogyny keeping women quiet mantra was quite useful in suppressing these women.

pointythings · 11/02/2025 19:43

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:34

@pointythings I imagine the passage which was quoted upthread regarding women being silent and modest dressing was in response to some probably fairly hefty criticism and heckling aimed at Paul from the women he was unsuccessfully attempting to teach. Let's face it they would have had plenty of ammunition considering the person he was before his conversion. What he said does have relevance in terms of treating teachers respectfully and not engaging in one upmanship with regard to physical appearance. Unfortunately, yes, it has been used to subjugate women. However, I think you have to look at the other things Paul said (for example the passage in Galatians concerning unity I quoted upthread) too in order to get a better idea of a more complete message. So I'm not sure it is about the Christian faith adapting but more about gaining an increasing appreciation of context and nuance in the message.

That's a fair point, but given that we have some people on this thread who persist in believing that the Scriptures are a set in stone thing without room for the kind of thoughtful approach you describe I don't hold out much hope for Christianity. The lesson about the mote and the beam doesn't appear to have been learned by enough people.

I'm an atheist; I derive the same comfort and hope from my belief that there is no god that believers do from their faith. I do however try not to judge, and when I discuss faith with believers who are willing to listen to my point of view as I am to listen to theirs, we often find there is more we have in common than that divides us. It does take a willingness to step away from the certainty that one's own beliefs are always right and everyone else's are therefore wrong. I'm of the opinion that there are many ways to walk the path.

Kdtym10 · 11/02/2025 19:50

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:39

@Kdtym10

Paul’s modern day equivalent is some incel whose had some visions whilst doing ayahausca starting a you tube channel

I don't like the reductive terms labels you use for people. It suggests they are beyond hope, beyond redemption with no fragment of good in them.

im not saying there is no good, I’m just saying I see a similar pattern playing out day after day. Some of these people have interesting things to say, But generally what is a major enlightening revelation to them has been experienced by thousands before and after. It’s a personal enlightenment that often many want to share. Paul was no different. The crux here is 2Corinthians 12 everything came from that that was Paul’s true enlightenment, it was then Jesusifird on the road to Damascus

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:53

I'm of the opinion that there are many ways to walk the path.

@pointythings, I belief what Jesus said here:

"6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6-7 NIV)

I think it is important to remember we see God in Jesus, they are the same and God is all around us, Jesus is all around us too. And living in us if we accept Him, 🙂.

Jabtastic · 11/02/2025 19:54

This is a really interesting thread OP and lots of great advice I hope it has helped you.

Kdtym10 · 11/02/2025 19:54

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:36

The way I was using the word would be to disclose something that was previously unknown.

@Kdtym10, known to you perhaps but maybe not to others. Or maybe not known completely enough. A reinforcement of emerging views can still be revelatory.

i guess the point is these were nothing that couldn’t be found in almost every interaction of philosophy around. If Paul was chosen by God you would expect something new rather than a rehashing of ideas known to man for hundreds, if not thousands of years prior.

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 11/02/2025 19:54

Kdtym10 · 11/02/2025 13:31

And what is that one gospel?

Oh, I’m so glad you have asked!

There are several scriptures which sum it up beautifully, the best known and most succinct being John 3:16 (the entire chapter should be read, for context).

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
John 3:16

in short, God who is holy and just and good made a way whereby He would satisfy His justice and yet save and redeem and restore to relationship with Himself, as a new creation, by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit, any sinful and hell-bound helpless repentant human being, without minimising or overlooking their sin, and with all the work being accomplished by Himself, through union with the life, death and resurrection of His Son, the Man, Christ Jesus, God incarnate, the second Adam, solely by grace through faith in Him alone.

Other scriptures which relate to the gospel of Jesus Christ include
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
1 Corinthians 15: 1-11

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.”
Titus 2: 11-15

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
Ephesians 2:1-10

Perhaps this short video by Paul Washer will explain things in a way that is easily understood.

Kdtym10 · 11/02/2025 19:55

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:53

I'm of the opinion that there are many ways to walk the path.

@pointythings, I belief what Jesus said here:

"6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6-7 NIV)

I think it is important to remember we see God in Jesus, they are the same and God is all around us, Jesus is all around us too. And living in us if we accept Him, 🙂.

What does it mean though to “know me”

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:58

The crux here is 2Corinthians 12 everything came from that that was Paul’s true enlightenment, it was then Jesusifird on the road to Damascus

@Kdtym10, interesting that you see the signs and miracles as the crux. I'll have to think on that one.

Kdtym10 · 11/02/2025 20:00

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:58

The crux here is 2Corinthians 12 everything came from that that was Paul’s true enlightenment, it was then Jesusifird on the road to Damascus

@Kdtym10, interesting that you see the signs and miracles as the crux. I'll have to think on that one.

I would point you towards chariot mysticism so you can understand where Paul was coming from from his trip into heaven

This might help to start

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 20:00

@Kdtym10

What does it mean though to “know me”

Be in unity with, is the first thought that comes to mind. (thanks Pulp! 😂)

pointythings · 11/02/2025 20:04

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 19:53

I'm of the opinion that there are many ways to walk the path.

@pointythings, I belief what Jesus said here:

"6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6-7 NIV)

I think it is important to remember we see God in Jesus, they are the same and God is all around us, Jesus is all around us too. And living in us if we accept Him, 🙂.

But the crux of it is how you define 'accepting him' and 'coming to the Father through me'. There is no consensus on this at all.

Then if you look more widely, there's the idea that only Christians will have the wonderful afterlife - everyone else is doomed. The arrogance of that is unacceptable to me.

It's no skin off my nose, I am perfectly happy to take responsibility for my choices if I should turn out to have been wrong all my life, but the mental contortions people put themselves through to prove to themselves that they are right and everyone who believes differently is wrong make me sad. It's no better than 'my tribe and your tribe'.

Kdtym10 · 11/02/2025 20:07

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 20:00

@Kdtym10

What does it mean though to “know me”

Be in unity with, is the first thought that comes to mind. (thanks Pulp! 😂)

And surely to be in unity would be to be as Jesus. So to be as Jesus would be to recognise our own divinity

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 20:14

And surely to be in unity would be to be as Jesus. So to be as Jesus would be to recognise our own divinity

@Kdtym10, not sure on that one.

As an analogy. A functioning cell is in unity with the whole body. It has a function important to the body's survival. It is connected. If you touch the cell you have touched the body. Yet the cell is not the whole body. I think people are like cells.

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 20:15

@pointythings,

But the crux of it is how you define 'accepting him' and 'coming to the Father through me'. There is no consensus on this at all.

indeed. Something I aim to be careful of.

pointythings · 11/02/2025 20:17

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 20:15

@pointythings,

But the crux of it is how you define 'accepting him' and 'coming to the Father through me'. There is no consensus on this at all.

indeed. Something I aim to be careful of.

Yes, you are clearly a thinking and respectful Christian. There are many people who could learn from you.

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 20:18

@pointythings , thank you. That is a kind thing to say. 🙂

eyestosee · 11/02/2025 20:23

@Kdtym10 so our access to divinity is dependent on our connection to God. If a connection is not utilised it is not viewed as connected.

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