Atheism and moral nihilism

[PorcelinaV]

Would you agree that atheism / naturalism has a less solid basis on which to ground morality?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/mar/09/life-without-god-bleak-atheism

Even more disturbing, perhaps, is the threat of moral nihilism. Atheists are quite rightly keen to counter the accusation that life without God cannot be moral. The British Humanist Association, for instance, claims that "Right and wrong can be explained by human nature alone and do not require religious teaching". But, just as with happiness, there is a need to distinguish the possibility of atheist morality from its inevitable actuality. Anyone who thinks it's easy to ground ethics either hasn't done much moral philosophy or wasn't concentrating when they did. Although morality is arguably just as murky for the religious, at least there is some bedrock belief that gives a reason to believe that morality is real and will prevail. In an atheist universe, morality can be rejected without external sanction at any point, and without a clear, compelling reason to believe in its reality, that's exactly what will sometimes happen.So I think it's time we atheists 'fessed up and admitted that life without God can sometimes be pretty grim.

I don't think you can claim atheists are more moral than theists for any reason. But you also can't claim they are less moral. The issue many of us have is that all too often, theists claim they are inherently more moral because they have faith. That is nonsense.

@PorcelinaV & @pointythings

Pertinent to the morality issue I think a central theme within the Christian faith is the inability of people generally to act (or sometimes actually perceive) the rights and wrongs within a situation.

Laws didn't cut it because people were motivated to keep those (they could) in a very public way in order to glorify their own egos and judge everyone they could (with relish) for not keeping the laws. They weren't particularly loving or caring or forgiving.

Christians believe we need the power of God's help in order to love others better and be less selfish.

So a Christian will believe they've the benefit of being able to become better people through our faith. But better than atheists? Depends on the starting point. There are many atheists that are far better than myself, for example, at doing some fantastic things for others that I can't imagine myself doing, at least currently. And in some areas I probably have greater success.

I do believe we are all individuals with individual strengths and weaknesses. It is futile and prejudiced to try and simplify down into "this group are better morally and this group worse". Added to this is the fact that different cultures have some different ideas over what is considered moral.

'act morally' that should read.

theists claim they are inherently more moral because they have faith. That is nonsense.

@pointythings, I don't (see above).

I don't apologise for the belief that I feel my Christian Faith has helped me, though. And to not through fear of punishment it's by choosing to identify with Christ and what He stands for. Over the years it has helped me get life into perspective and be more honest and less Machiavellian in outlook.

@heyhohello I know you aren't one of those. But they are many. Every time I have attended a church service in the past 20 years bar twice there has been something in the sermon that was a clear slur against atheists, often suggesting strongly that we are not capable of being moral human beings. It's wearying to be brought face to face with that all the time. It's happened in Anglican services, protestant services, weddings, funerals and school events (my DC went to a C of E primary. Yes, I informed them of my atheism and our general non church attendance). The two instances where it didn't happen were a Roman Catholic vow renewal and my husband's funeral (he and his family had faith so I chose to respect that. No regrets, the vicar was wonderful).

@pointythings, thanks for acknowledging that, it means a lots to me. I believe human beings are all made in the image of God (who is good according to my belief). So all have good in them and are capable of doing good. So the insinuation atheists aren't capable of good is false IMO and according to my belief.

What an atheist (probably) wouldn't do is refer to Christ / pray in order to ascertain what is good or what they should do in any given situation. (So won't be doing good in unity with God or as a result of religious faith) So I can see, in this way, morality can develop cultural variations. But churches aren't devoid of cultural influences either which must be acknowledged. We are far from complete unity.

I'm pleased you have some better experiences with the church.

And of course I have seen the result of atheists being very caring and doing good!🙂