Could I have managed this difficult conversation any better?

[Bimblesalong]

I have been away at a nice country house hotel with my husband to celebrate our wedding anniversary. It's the sort of place where guests use the sitting rooms in the evening, have a glass of something and chat in front of the fire - or just read, etc.

We met a lovely older couple and enjoyed their conversation and the husband's zest and enthusiasm for discussion. He appeared to have a lovely and kind way of talking and enquiry. He had recently been very ill and we understood from the discussion that he may have had a "near death" experience - although having only just met them, didn't want to discuss further.

The final evening after dinner, we all met again in the sitting room. This is where the very strange encounter happened and I am left a little reeling and wondering if there was anything I could have done to handle it better. My husband and I were sitting in the corner chatting to the couple, the last people left as others gradually said good night. The chap's wife went up to bed and we were left talking. The evening before, the chap had said that he would pose us a conundrum to think about and to answer at breakfast time, which we had thought was another "conversational opener" as we had had some good chats about various things (history and art, not religion and politics!). He had asked us to think about the phrase "nothing comes from nothing".

Left alone with him, he asked us what we had thought. He then became very heightened emotionally, launching into a very strong speech about God, hate, love, and that he had a duty to spread the message. Some of the things he said were quite disturbing and at one point he stood with his arms out, discussing the crucifixion in horrifying detail, then talking that he had "seen God" and how terrifying it was as God cannot look upon sin. He was very upset and it was hard to deal with him - we were also on tiny chairs, so getting up was a struggle and he was hugely looming over us. There was no point arguing with him as he wanted to spread the message of his point, and tbh we just wanted to finish what should have been a celebratory evening in peace and quiet, rather than prolonging it into the night with a religious argument.

There was no space to say "come on old chap, it's late, let's all get to bed" as there was no space in his tirade (wrong word but you understand) and we were strangely worried about offending or upsetting him. We let him play it out and he did eventually go off to his room and wife. I've never been speechless before!

I've never been in such a situation and it felt like being in front of a fire and brimstone preacher - but also in front of a chap who is staring his mortality in the face. I wonder if he had had some sort of near-death revelatory experience. It has really unsettled me - not sure why, and was so at odds with the older gentleman who was standing as ladies came into the room, opening doors, etc, and discussing other topics politely.

What could I have done to diffuse or manage this better?

I don't think you could have managed the situation any better. You were compassionate in acknowledging he felt it was very important he shared his experience with you and you listened. It's really up to you as to what conclusions you come up with regarding to what he said. I'm guessing you didn't like him sharing something so deeply personal with you as relative strangers but there again people do this often when something affects them on a profound level. And it is important that people can share things and be listened too. And you survived unscathed albeit a bit embarrassed. Don't be. It's ok for people to talk to others (unless they are actually spouting out hate speech).

Got up and left.

I can't believe you AND your husband were so ineffectual in front of an elderly man.

What do you think he was going to do, swat guy with his handkerchief?!

I'm questioning why you BOTH were so unassertive.

My husband would have had me out of their in seconds, not that he would need to as I can stand up for myself.

This was an elderly man who had recently been ill!

It's ok to get up and leave or speak up and say goodnight!

I can't believe you just say their like a couple of scared schoolgirls!

Being assertive in these kind of situations is okay.

Thanks @meanderingbrook I really don't think we could have done anything else.
@Dombasle we were both rather shocked by his emotional behaviour, and are asking ourselves the same thing - I have handled some very difficult situations assertively and have never been lost for words before, hence my post (I've chaired tribunal meetings, for example). We were literally pinned in a corner (and figuratively so!) and with such low chairs it was a struggle to get up too! We were on the point of saying we were off to bed when he left, fortunately.

I wouldn’t worry about it; it just seems to have been one of those mad experiences that we all have from time to time.
just use it as an interesting anecdote.

The behaviour could stem from several different mental states , and I'm sure that, being there with him, you were better placed to get a feel for the situation than any online respondents on your thread. So I'm sure your reactions were appropriate.

If I had thought the behaviour had stemmed from a rather aggressive and narcissistic evangelism I hope I would have told him not-very-politiely to give it a rest and gone off to bed.
If it had stemmed from the kind of impoverished self-monitoring that sometimes accompanies older age I would have spoken semi-politely but still excused myself and gone to bed.
If I thought he was so genuinely moved by his near-death experience that he couldn't contain himself, I would have tried to speak compassionately but still have gone to bed.
If he was genuinely psychotic, I would probably have stayed, heard him out and maybe even conversed with him, because in my experience people with psychosis can be really interesting to talk with even when deluded.

Thanks again Dombasle, yes I think it did take us by surprise and reflecting on it, I didn't shut him down as I was feeling a lot of compassion for him. At nearly 60 myself, I'm of the generation where "respect for elders" has been drummed in too! Equally of the generation when these elders taught us a few boundaries in conversations with others at naice hotels!

That's an interesting range of analysis, Random, and I think 3 is the best fit for where we were at. It really was rather Damescene on his part, followed by this evangelical need to "save" others (believers or not).

As a religious trauma survivor, I'd have shut him down immediately and told him to never speak to me again.

This was a one-off situation for you, and I'd have considered it interesting to experience it / hear what he had to say and how he said it. Worth missing out on 15 minutes' sleep or whatever. After all, a lot of conversation with others is at a superficial level.

I’d have been quite enthralled tbh, it sounds like the Rime of the ancient Mariner, which ends this…..

”O Wedding-Guest! this soul hath been
Alone on a wide wide sea:
So lonely 'twas, that God himself
Scarce seemèd there to be.

O sweeter than the marriage-feast,
'Tis sweeter far to me,
To walk together to the kirk
With a goodly company!—

To walk together to the kirk,
And all together pray,
While each to his great Father bends,
Old men, and babes, and loving friends
And youths and maidens gay!

Farewell, farewell! but this I tell
To thee, thou Wedding-Guest!
He prayeth well, who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast.

He prayeth best, who loveth best
All things both great and small;
For the dear God who loveth us,
He made and loveth all.

The Mariner, whose eye is bright,
Whose beard with age is hoar,
Is gone: and now the Wedding-Guest
Turned from the bridegroom's door.

He went like one that hath been stunned,
And is of sense forlorn:
A sadder and a wiser man,
He rose the morrow morn.”

Why not just say you're not interested, get up and leave?

Because of small issues like compassion, kindness, and respect. Are people on Mumsnet really as cold and rude and heartless as they act like they are in comments?

But nothing comes from nothing, as he said, and I’d have been fascinated by his speech. It’s easy for people to become awkward or scared or offended by talk of God but personally I love it. If he’s had an experience of God, I’m open to hearing it and would be interested and respectful of what he has to say.

Excusing yourself and leaving when someone is looming over you and proletysing at you is rude heartless and cold now?

tricky one (was this the first time you had been alone with him without his wife?) but I might have tried to make a break for it. Something along the lines of 'Oh it is much too late to be getting into all this. Goodnight'. And then maybe get the receptionist to phone his wife to come down.

The nothing comes from nothing is a philosophical statement by Parmenides in Ancient Greece, but the idea is there is no break between a world that did not exist and one that does, since the world that exists could not be created.

Talking about God when you don't have explicit consent to do so from your audience isn't compassionate, kind or respectful. If you can't cope with someone telling you where to shove it, as they are perfectly entitled to do, you should keep very quiet.

I'm a religious trauma survivor, and as such I absolutely refuse to have anyone preach at me. It's a triggering subject for a lot of people.

"Talking about God when you don't have explicit consent to do so from your audience isn't compassionate, kind or respectful. If you can't cope with someone telling you where to shove it, as they are perfectly entitled to do, you should keep very quiet. "

@PrimitivePerson, wow! This really saddens me! Without delving into your specific trauma it does show the work the church has to do in order to properly communicate God's message! And what there is to come back from that you practically need to have a trigger warning just to discuss anything God related! This is not how things should be. It reminds me of something Sinead O'Connor said about the abuse within the Catholic Church, 'they don't believe in God!'.

All I can say is ''Sorry!', more needs to be done in terms of reparation.

@meanderingbrook this whole incident is nothing to do with god or the church. It is a disturbed man trying to come to terms with the fact he is mortal. Forcing people to listen to
tirades on your own views and saying they need to be saved is not acceptable. It is what cult preachers do.

@ilovetomatosoup, it's an old man! I've had cancer, and I've got to say, if you are seriously ill all sorts of experiences are possible! It's not so much forcing people to listen but trying to connect to people at the same time as trying to come to terms with stuff! Sometimes compassion means we have the opportunity to bear with people. We don't necessarily go through the same shit but once I was praying about this and came across a pice of scripture which said 'Mercy not sacrifice..' which sums it up for me. Sometimes other people are just going through some stuff. You can listen and ignore if you want.

I would have nodded and smiled politely, then wholeheartedly wished him well, then said good night. Not much else you could have done really.

I would be grateful not to have to speak to him ever again but he was clearly a troubled man and I'd feel empathy.

Was he possibly rather pissed?

I’m sure there are lots of ways you could have dealt with him better, as many people have suggested, but sometimes odd situations like this do happen.
And it’s very easy for people to criticise or say “well I would have XYZ” but they weren’t there and they weren’t you!
You were not expecting his outburst and I imagine in all honesty I would have probably reacted the same way as you, on the spot and in a corner. Strange or unexpected behaviour, especially from strangers, does stick in the memory, but don’t be too hard on yourself.

What I really don't get is the guilt for simply being compassionate! It's like when my late Mum was relaying when she gave a beggar on holiday a £1 and he people she was with berated her because they might have being an illegal immigrant! I just saiid, 'Don't ever feel sorry just for being kind!'. (And £1 is absolutely nothing!!!!)

@meanderingbrook I did not say anything about not been compassionate, I said it was not about god or the church. He is a man who has had to face his mortality & decided to use the ‘story of god’ to try and cope. He needs to find help to cope but frightening others with tirades and sudden character changes is not the answer. I am curious that this happened after his wife had gone up to bed.