How to return to Christian beliefs?

[ANewLifeIsMine]

Maybe the title of this thread is misleading.

I am middle aged. As a child I was Christened and went to Sunday School.

In my early youth my parents vehemently decided that suddenly they did not believe in God, and we were taken out of Sunday School and no longer attended church, with the exception of Christenings, Marriages and Funerals.

It would be true to say that my childhood was difficult. It was one of those upper middle class childhoods whereby your DCs are a badge of honour. We were brought out and displayed to make my parents look good, though as parents they were hands off, unless we did something very right that they could show off, or very wrong for which they could admonish us. Religious beliefs were scorned.

However, I feel strongly that God has never left me. I believe in the God my Grandparents spoke of, and the valuable lessons I learned through them e.g. do unto others.

I believe that God is in everything, not just churches.

My own relationship with God has been remote, but I have always felt that he is with me.

I see my return to faith as a very personal thing, I neither want, nor need, to go to church. As I said, I believe that God is everywhere.

How do I return to my Christian faith? In a chaotic world, how do I learn more about the lessons of the bible?

I do not want to go on a formal course. As I say, my relationship with God is very personal. I'm asking; how do I enhance, enrich and grow my faith further? How do I pray, for example?

Apologies for the length of this post. I'm serious about this and would be grateful for any serious answers.

Do you like to read?

The Bible, as has been mentioned, but I would also suggest CS Lewis. Mere Christianity is brilliant (with some definitely old-fashioned and sometimes off-putting bits, but these are not elemental). If you like fiction, The Chronicles of Narnia also echoes much of the Christian story with important themes of sacrifice and redemption. I haven't read his sci-fi novels but apparently they're pretty good.

If you like podcasts, The Sacred is great- not overly Christian but also not dismissive of the Christian faith.

I don't think you need to go to church to be a Christian but it helps. It will bring you closer to other people and to God. But it's hard when there is not an obvious choice of where to go.

Yes Christianity has shaped a lot of western life in some of the ways you mention, many of these things were intergrated into Christianity from older traditions. It has also sought to suppress women, been used as a way to assert dominance snd solicit compliance from other cultures, it has been used as the mortar in the building of more than one empire.

So yes Christianity has both shaped and been shaped by western civilisation. Hellenism as a big factor in the shaping of Christianity.

many atrocious acts have been carried out in the name of Christianity, some of these acts have shaped the things you highlight. You cannot claim one side and not the other. Christianity has been a force for good and bad, in fact the premise of the religion is based on that duality.

OMG12, Jesus committed no atrocities and commanded us only to love God and each other. He oppressed no one.
What you are describing are the actions of evil men who subverted Christianity in their own pursuit of power, which only happened after the Romans adopted it as the state religion of the empire.
“Even the devil may quote scripture to his purpose”, as the saying goes.
If OP goes to the source - Christ- she will not be misled by any of that. And modern churches are not burning heretics any more, or disempowering women! My own last minister was a lesbian feminist and formidable theologian, and we have had women ministers for over 50 years, including two female Moderators (the leader of the national church in Scotland).

Well as Jesus is dead - how is OP going to go to source?

Yes organised religion is dreadful, Christianity continues to cause the persecution and deaths of many, especially in Africa. LGB individuals continue to be persecuted and killed. Lives are ruined (and taken away) by Christian anti abortionists in America. Over population caused by certain Christian doctrines causes mass poverty affecting near enough entire populations.

Christianity as it stands has been created by man for reasons of control and power, almost the dawn of Christianity different Jesus cults were arguing over what Christianity was. In the west the sponsored state iterations of Christianity have largely relied on the words of Paul, a likely Jewish mystic who never met Jesus but spent many years persecuting Christians, someone who didn’t always see eye to eye with those who apparently knew Jesus.

The church has a long way to go to reverse the millennia of harm it has caused women, some christian denominations obviously don’t allow women to be ordained, other groups, esp with anti abortion it’s slants limit the freedoms of women.

So how can the OP reach Jesus? Well it’s clear that organised Christianity will only provide answers curated through millennia of agendas. The bible? Well it needs to be understood through the eyes of those who wrote it which? I would argue included knowledge of Jewish mysticism and Judaism (the Parts not written by Paul were seemingly written for Jews). It’s only part of the story selected over a few hundred years and should be read alongside the excluded texts).

With organised religion you’re more likely to develop a relationship with the curators of Christianity not Jesus.

For some that’s fine, for others not so much.

But there are many, more personal ways of creating and sustaining a relationship with the divine that don’t necessitate interacting with organised religion - I was pointing that out to the OP.

@Babdoc . Good post

Why? there are numerous holes that haven’t been answered.

if you look at other gospels Jesus wasn’t always a nice dude. He killed two kids in one!

Why did God set up rules that meant his son had to die in the most painful way, a parent, brother and friends would see their child tortured to death? Not loving, have you read the Old Testament.?

The post seems to indicate that the OP should develop a personal relationship with God/Jesus through the Bible. I’m guessing @Babdoc is Methodist so this makes sense that this is their perspective. Yet the Bible is essentially a set of stories that can be read in multiple ways, has translation issues etc. is a small selection of available books, needs to be read in conjunction with knowledge of historical and spiritual context. Just look at the many different interpretations within Christianity.

There seems to be an acknowledgment of the terrible past of Christianity but lack of acknowledgment that many of these atrocities carry on in many parts of the world.

Of course, the whole "Christians who do things I don't like are not really Christians" excuse. And yet you're perfectly happy to make insulting generalisations about atheists.

Well as Jesus is dead - how is OP going to go to source?

You seem to have forgotten the most important part @OMG12 - the resurrection! Jesus is alive and today is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Christianity have largely relied on the words of Paul, a likely Jewish mystic who never met Jesus but spent many years persecuting Christians

Yes for which he repented wholeheartedly after his conversion. And he did meet Jesus - the risen Jesus, on the road to Damascus.

Also, how are spiritualists in any way Christian? Answer - they're not!

Well let’s deal with each of your points in turn

1. spiritualists aren’t Christian’s. Despite you appearing very confident in your view, many spiritualists (my grandparents included) do consider themselves Christian - the fact it doesn’t fit in with your own narrow view is completely irrelevant, although interesting to see you thinking you can act as a gatekeeper to Christianity - what gives you the impression you carry that authority?

The Greater World Christian Spiritualist Association sets out the following for example:

• I believe in one God who is Love.
• I accept the Leadership of Jesus the Christ.
• I believe that God manifests through the illimitable power of holy spirit.
• I believe in the survival of the soul and its individuality after physical death.
• I believe in Communion with God, with His angelic ministers, and with souls functioning in conditions other than Earth Life.
• I believe that all forms of Life created by God intermingle, are interdependent, and evolve until perfection is attained.
• I believe in perfect justice of the Divine Laws governing all Life.
• I believe that sins committed can only be rectified by the sinner himself or herself, through the redemptive power of Jesus the Christ, by repentance and service to others.

2 You can go to source because Jesus is alive.

Here I am assuming that you mean the resurrected Jesus who ascended into heaven. Leaving aside questions about the resurrection, we will assume that Jesus did walk out of the tomb (although famously, for some reason none of his close friends recognised him). This resurrected Jesus is no longer here, he ascended into heaven either on the same day or 40 days after- depending on who you believe- he is no longer here. Mostly it wasn’t mentioned in detail Incidentally Ascension was pretty popular, even the Emperor Augustus headed up into the clouds.

Assuming he is in heaven seated at the right of the father (we will ignore or the implications for time and space this literal view makes) how is one to contact Jesus? There’s no physical link. Presumably through prayer. So how do you know it’s Jesus who is speaking to you? It could be a demon, it could be your own mind. Asking him for an autobiography is unlikely to yield results. It’s impossible to go to source. You need to speak to the teacher wounding round 1st C Galilee.

3 Paul did meet Jesus. Well let’s look at what happened. We will set aside Paul’s various claim to revelations other than the Road to Damascus incident.

cont below

There’s two accounts in Acts (9 and 22)these have these things in common:

1. Saul saw a bright light in the heaven
2. He heard a voice claiming to be Jesus asking why Saul was persecuting him

So what actually happened? You would expect there to be witnesses. Well there were. Unfortunately the two stories say two different things. The first didn’t see the light but heard the sound, the second saw the light but didn’t hear the sound. Not exactly a watertight corroboration of events.

Saul was a Jewish mystic - he was used to internal voices and revelation - he most certainly didn’t meet the man Jesus. He might have come across his impression of the spirit at most. Most likely it was an internal dialogue possibly brought around by stress (most likely he had a migraine leading to flashes of bright light and temporary blindness which he saw as a sign from Jesus).

Thanks, that's given me quite a heachache. Where are you getting all this info @OMG12 ? Please tell me it's not all from dodgy channels on YouTube.

@OMG12,

"Saul was a Jewish mystic - he was used to internal voices and revelation - he most certainly didn’t meet the man Jesus. He might have come across his impression of the spirit at most."

Sorry this is a bit cheeky but I was reminded of when we met a while ago on another thread (I have had many names on MN😉) You said this:

"One of my favourite quotes is from F. Scott Fitzgerald

“The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and retain the ability to function.”"

So maybe Saul/Paul did actually meet Jesus but at the same time not, not in the conventional material sense. 😁

And @OMG12 as such your certainty is perplexing me rather here. Have your views changed a lot recently?

Well most of it is from the bible. It’s clearly set out there - you should give it a whirl!

Hiya again. Have my views changed? Not really - well no more than would be expected development.

i think it says in Acts Paul never met the man Jesus,)note I used the term “man”) so kind of straight from the horses mouth.

Yes Here the two opposing views could be Paul both met and didn’t meet Jesus. He didn’t meet the man Jesus (Paul agrees) but he did meet Jesus in his mind (which was different from the teacher who had been crucified - but potentially was what the teacher Jesus was on about all the time). What that means though is open to very wide interpretation.

Still love that quote. 😀

"Hiya again. Have my views changed? Not really - well no more than would be expected development."

@OMG12
I don't know, your tone just seems different here. You seem to be less open minded regarding the truth(s) within Christianity - more critical/ challenging of Christianity than what I have read into your posts from a while ago. Just wondered whether there was a bit of a 'sea change' in your views more recently.

And yes, I love that quote too. 🙂

"(which was different from the teacher who had been crucified - but potentially was what the teacher Jesus was on about all the time)."

@OMG12
Or the same - in perfect unity.

Many churches/cathedrals now livestream their Sunday services on YouTube so if you are not keen on going to a local church but feel that you would benefit from listening to a service, this would be a good halfway house.
I’m a Christian and enjoy collective worship and the feeling of being connected to my church community. There are some Sundays when I prefer to tune in to the service from my sofa in my dressing gown and fast forward through the boring bits!!
I would also recommend reading around - CS Lewis’s ‘Mere Christianity’ would be a good place to start if you haven’t read it.

interesting to see you thinking you can act as a gatekeeper to Christianity -
what gives you the impression you carry that authority?

The God of the Bible - Adonai - holds that authority @OMG12 . Spiritualism goes completely against the teachings in scripture - see Leviticus 19:31, Deuteronomy 18:9-14, Isaiah 8:19, Leviticus 20:6, 2 Kings 23:24, 1 Timothy 4:1, Matthew 22:32, 1 Chronicles 10:13-14, Revelation 22:8-9, Revelation 19:10, Matthew 4:9-10, Colossians 2:18, Galatians 1:18, among others.

I tend to reflect the tone of the person I’m speaking with, I found the tone very aggressive from that particular poster (probably proved by their extraordinarily misjudged ad hominem response to my post).

i still hold that every religion has some truths. As I mentioned upthread I think some (most) people are more than fulfilled by exoteric religion. That’s fine. Others seek more/different perspectives and I was trying to show different options for the OP and suggest some questions she might want to ask herself.

Maybe im
being more challenging to some of the “Christians” on here than Christ 😀

i think it says in Acts Paul never met the man Jesus,)note I used the term “man”) so kind of straight from the horses mouth.

These are the main verses about Paul's encounter with the risen Lord @OMG12 -

“Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?”
(1 Corinthians 9:1)

“For I did not receive it [his gospel message] from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:12)

“But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his face, was pleased to reveal his Son to me . . . I did not confer with flesh and blood. . ." (Galatians 1:15-16)

“For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took break . . ." (1 Corinthians 11:23)

“I must boast, there is nothing to be gained by it, but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord.” (2 Corinthians 12:1)

“To keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but he said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.'” (2 Corinthians 12:7-9)

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me."
(1 Corinthians 15:3-10)

Oh sorry, I didn’t realise there was just one God of the bible. Adonai/Lord. What happened to the Elohim (all of them) ? YHVH? El-Shaddai, Eihiyeh , etc etc the Old Testament is practically polytheistic.

Break it down Jesus was basically doing the magic of the Babylonians and Egyptians, changing water into wine (Roman party trick), not just channeling spirits but raising people from the dead, using magic words to cast out spirits, to heal the incapacitated.

So why do you think the Bible might prohibit contacting spirits?

"I tend to reflect the tone of the person I’m speaking with, I found the tone very aggressive from that particular poster (probably proved by their extraordinarily misjudged ad hominem response to my post)."

@OMG12
Fighting fire with more fire? Well, yes that's very understandable. We all have our own buttons, I know, but not sure aggressive eristicism works well in keeping discussion open and encouraging though. The discussion can become to feel a bit futile as individual knowledge becomes weaponised obliterating any hope of learning further from others.

"Maybe im
being more challenging to some of the “Christians” on here than Christ 😀"

Interesting thought - are you saying Christ doesn't challenge them? (Not my experience) or that you don't challenge Christ? So you are in agreement with Christ?

I was once told, becoming a Christian is as easy as ABC.

A. Accept that you're a sinner, unable to go to heaven on your own merit.
B. Believe that Jesus died for your sins so you can go to heaven.
C. Call upon His name.

I'm praying for you and know that God loves you incredibly.
There is a church called Athey Creek. They have a website where you can watch their teachings. They are so easy to listen to and will help you as you start this journey.

God bless x

I tend to reflect the tone of the person I’m speaking with, I found the tone very aggressive from that particular poster

Are you talking about me @OMG12 ??