Trigger Warning: mentions CSA - How does your God handle child abusers?

[Prefernottosay]

My family claims to be religious. There are a number of Catholic priests in the family and the rest of my parents generation particularly but some in my generation too would consider themselves very religious.

I was abused by my eldest brother growing up. My sister was also abused. Her abuse continued from him into adulthood. My brother has never taken any responsibility for his actions.

My father, when he found out about the abuse from my brother he minimised the abuse, dismissed his daughters experiences, he told me that my sister and brother had an affair even though my brother owned up to him that he had abused me. Finally my father said to me that he had made his peace with what my brother had done and he was continuing his relationship on with my brother now and never mentioning it again and I just had to come to terms with that. My mother was equally as self centred in her approach there was absolutely no room for me or my experiences in what had happened. Oh and my father told a mediator we went to that the problem in our family was that I wasn’t a forgiving enough person. The rest of my family have silently and I mean completely silently gone along with that and they have happily allowed me to be completely ostracised from my family. I loved my family but I now have nothing to do with them because of the harm these experiences had on me, my mental health and my children.

How does your God handle these kinds of human failings? What is his response to this? Is this stuff evil? Does he forgive everyone of us for our actions? How does that forgiveness work?

I'm sorry, OP- I am not religious and have no answers but am so sorry, not only that this happened to you, but that your family have behaved so badly.

We had similar in extended family- a girl raped by her uncle on her 17th birthday which we tried to support her to report to police and pursue a conviction. Her mother and that side of the family, who are big-time Christians let her know that they had forgiven his historic abuse of them, as Christians- and that she should too. Unfortunately the CPS also chose not to prosecute.

We want nothing to do with them ever again. It's fine to be Christian and to make that decision for yourself as an adult, but when that's your first response to a traumatised young woman I cannot fathom what religion they can possibly be following.

I hope you and your sister are able to access support away from your family.

Sadly my sister just goes along with it all. I think that her response to the trauma is to fawn. She is such a great person but the lack of regard for her and me in the family makes me absolutely ill. And of course now she believes I am the one with a lack of regard for her because I won’t follow the conditioned response. It is very sad.

It does sound like you have been put in a very difficult position. I'm sure that there will be other people on here who are wiser and more clued up who will have good advice, but it sounds like you need to protect yourself and let her know the door's open (if you're able) and then put some serious distance between you and the rest of them. Sounds like you're very smart, strong, and switched on- I do hope you have other people around who have your back and give you the loyalty you deserve.

I would report to police if you can. Why should he get away with what he's done? I understand it might make things difficult with your family though.

I’m a different religion (pagan).

Gods are just there, they don’t do forgiveness and they don’t make you do bad things.

There is no ‘the devil made me do it’. Any bad stuff we do is on us, and if we want forgiveness or redemption we need to seek it from the people we have hurt.

I guess your family are trying to cope with the horror and evil within their family by burying their heads in the sand instead of facing into it. There is no redemption by following the path of ignorance.

I hope you and your sister find peace, my childhood experience of Catholicism tells me that you won’t find any peace there. I’ve ended up actually hating Catholicism and have no tolerance for the behaviours it has allowed. My father still follows it and tells me ‘the nuns were just doing their best’ as though beating and starving young children is ‘doing your best’.

I should have actually said that @VanillaImpulse it has been reported to the police. Another one of my father’s lovely comments at the time was about how boys don’t go to jail for doing that to their sisters as if it was the most normal behaviour ever.

My brother lives abroad. The police have done very little about it because of that. Historic abuse is notoriously hard to prosecute.

What your brother has done to you and your sister is abhorrent and I am so sorry. I believe that God would be sad and angry about this and about all the other evil in our world. Evil because humans have made wrong choices. However, I also believe that God offers forgiveness to all those who sin, however bad that may be, if they show remorse and ask for his mercy and forgiveness. It does not sound like your brother has shown any remorse. Don’t confuse what your dad thinks, or anyone else who claims to be religious or a Christian, with what God thinks and who God is. All Christians, even the ones who seem the nicest, are sinners, imperfect and generally a disappointing reflection of God. Read about Jesus in the bible if you want to see how God wants humans to behave. There are very few Christians who really reflect the kindness of Jesus. God cares for the weak and broken. I agree with a previous poster about reporting to the police if you feel able to.

It sounds as though your father has completely minimalised this abuse and that is not ok. I‘m sure it has been very damaging to you and your sister.

I can’t read the bible anymore @LavendarMoon I have had a lifetime of the bible and from the last years I have had Gods words thrown back at me and used to excuse and manipulate me so others don’t have to follow Gods path. I find it way too triggering now to go near the bible now. I feel like a really bad person because I am not following blindly the words set out in the bible “honour your father and mother” even though rationally I know others are using the words manipulatively towards me to excuse their own choices.

@Prefernottosay I completely understand that. To be honest it doesn’t sound like anyone in your life has been showing Christian values and you have experienced a lot of hurt, not just from your brother but from others in your family. It is easy to take bible verses out of context and and I don’t believe that God would have you honour your father and mother if they are treating you with such unkindness.

Thanks @LavendarMoon I appreciate what you say. I agree about the lack of Christian values I experienced and it has hurt an awful lot.

One of my uncles was my lifelong hero, he is a priest and he has done so much good throughout his life, genuine good. But he never told me that he never uttered one single word to my parents about what they were doing even though privately he told me he thought it was wrong. The silence of others hurt a lot. I have felt totally betrayed by my family.

Many, many Christians completely misunderstand the concept of forgiveness, and others use it to avoid having to face up to difficult situations. Forgiveness is for the benefit of the injured person, not for the benefit of the wrongdoer. It is your choice, and no one should be compelling you to do it. What your brother did was very, very wrong, your family are hiding behind the ‘forgiveness’ thing because they are too cowardly to face up to that, probably because of what it says about them. Their behaviour is also wrong, and God will absolutely be angry with them for the way they are treating you. I am so, so sorry for what has happened to you. It is wrong, it is not your fault, it should not be like this.

Thank you @Elisheva it is such a relief hearing Christians saying this stuff.

I feel like my religion was weaponised against me. It has made me very angry even with God and it has almost destroyed my faith which was already massively shaken after all of the abuse in the Catholic Church came out. It is so cathartic hearing people who have faith saying this stuff.

No problem. I will say it as many times as you need to hear it, and I would say it to your parents and brother too if I could!

They may get away with it in the eye of religion but they should not get away with it in the eyes of the law ! Go to the police. Make your family see that this is so wrong what they ha e all done not just your abuser but all of them are just as bad. They should all be ashamed of themselves

@noclothesinbed we have gone to the police.

The problem for me is how much this has affected my sense of self and self esteem. They have done really shitty things to me and I feel like I am the wrong, bad person. You see it all the time here if everyone else agrees then you are the problem. I feel like shit from what they have done to me. My children have suffered massively too. It has hurt so so much.

I agree with this. I’m a Christian and I think, going by the Bible, God hates what happened to you and your sister and he hates the way your family has handled it.

God forgives those who believe the Bible message, turn to him, repent of everything they have done that they know to be wrong, and follow Jesus - doing their best to trust him and obey him. If anyone does not repent of wrongdoing, the Bible says they will not receive forgiveness, but justice.

Everyone will be accountable to God in the end. Your brother and family will face justice if they do not repent and believe the good news.

Not everyone who says they are a Christian has done this and really has a relationship with God.

Jesus is gentle and cares about you. The Bible says,

‘A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smouldering wick he will not snuff out.’
(Isaiah 42.3)

Please don’t be put off him by the actions of some people! He would love to bring you emotional healing, if you will turn to him.

Christian God or any other deity do not accept abuse, abusers or expect forgiveness or understanding from victims. The most anyone should be expected to do is to understand that the parent child bond is strong so they can't disown them completely however tough that is for you. Forgiveness is part of Christianity but it has boundaries after all an eye for an eye is also in the bible.

I don't sound like a very good Christian but no I cant forgive abusers despite having to accommodate them within my church under strict rules

That would definitely be what I was taught as part of my religious upbringing too.

I think maybe I have had a hard time accepting the level of seriously depraved behaviour that people inflict on one another with no earthly consequences. The injustice of it. Good people closing their eyes to it. It is so hard to accept.

@gogohmm in this case, from my experience at the very least, the bond between parent and child was strong only between my father and his favoured child and my mother and my father’s favoured child. My father had absolutely no problem disregarding his daughter’s experiences. My mother either.

It is so hard to accept.

When I think of things like this, it does comfort me to know that there will be justice in the end.

I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through OP. I know you can't face reading the Bible at the moment, so I thought I'd write down a few verses that will hopefully help in some small way:

'Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.' Colossians 3:21

'The Lord is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble.' Psalm 9:9

'He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.' Psalm 147:3

'Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.' James 1:26

'The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.' Psalm 34:18

'I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people - not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.” '
1 Corinthians 5:9-13

'Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple'. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

'If anyone causes one of these little ones - those who believe in me - to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea'.
Mark 9:42

'But you, God, see the trouble of the afflicted; you consider their grief and take it in hand. The victims commit themselves to you; you are the helper of the fatherless'. Psalm 10:14

'Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.' Romans 12:19

And last but not least, 'If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.'
Luke 17:3-4

Melanie Campbell, a Christian survivor of domestic abuse wrote:
'...Forgiveness doesn’t mean restoring a toxic relationship or making light of or dismissing what you endured. The abuser must be held accountable. What forgiveness does mean is giving both your past and the person who abused you over to God to deal with, and you no longer carry the weight of anger and unforgiveness in your heart. It’s not easy, but with God it’s possible and life changing. Being a victim of domestic abuse doesn’t define you. God does. He says you are loved and cherished. He says you have a hope and a future.'

There was another thread recently about a Christian using the need for the victim to forgive as a way to silence the victim into acceptance, and remove accountability from the perpetrator.

I consider this a form of religious abuse.

OP I am so sorry all this has happened to you. I know how hard it is to step away from family like this, and I respect you for having the strength to do so.

@Flowership That's awful, do you have a link to the thread?

Sorry to be blunt but the "silent" reaction of your entire family is shocking! How is your sister going along with this?
I wouldn't be able to look at them or speak with them again. Just tell them where to go, get rid. They do not give a toss about your feelings or experience.
Your uncle could have done all the good things in the world, but he is an arsehole if he can't even stand up for his niece and is happy to continue his relationship with your brother and parents as normal.